Testing of Magnetic Pins - Added Pick Resistance??

[arbus]

I know there has been some discussion on magnetic pins before, but just thought you may be interested in the testing we have done.
Check it out here
http://24hourlocksmith.com.au/lab.htm

We added magnets to the ends of both the bottom and top pins to see if they would make the lock more pick gun and bump key resistant.
Did it work?-- Yes
It dosent make it pick proof, but makes it harder.
Easy to make them if you want to try it yourself.
If you put the pins in chambers next to each other you will need stronger springs to counteract the force.
The pins stay surprisingly strong. Still takes alot of shear force to break them. Maybe more then brass pins?
Have Fun
Ar

[Gordon Airporte]

Hey, now that's a great first post! (Unless this is a new name?)
Couple of questions: Did you try weaker magnets which don't necessitate stronger springs, and did you experiment to see if there is some minimum number of modified pins that still prevents bumping?
I know people have experimented with using different strength springs in the same lock and the locks were still bumpable, so it looks like it is the magnets in this case.

[arbus]

Yes, first post here. I have lots of crazy interesting stuff going on. Just wanted to see if anyone has done this before?
I didnt try weaker magnets because they need to be strong to resist the shock or the pick gun or bump key. Even the Neo magnets arent strong enough to stop a pick gun if you turn the tention up. But you'll stuff the lock up at the same time if you try.
Any number of these pins add some resistance. The more you have the more the resistant effect.
There is also another effect i noticed. Because the magnets are next to each other they want to get pushed up and down to repel/attract. So when a pin gets pushed up it has the tendency to stick there because it is repelled upwards. The spring should always push it down of course but if you have weaker springs the pin can be pushed up and stay. Under normal key operation this dosent happen. So you can easy make a pick proof lock by arranging the pins to get stuck if they are pushed up too far. Only problem is that the key wont work after this. But at least the burglars dont get in . This may be practical with more testing??

Yes its funny but the higher spring tension in the lock cylinder dosent have much of an effect. Bit like suspension in a car.

[Phatphish]

I may be incorrect here, but what I remember from physics lessons at school (Back in the dark ages) is that if you hit a magnet causing a shock then it will dissipate some of its magnetic properties. Several "bumps" may reduce it effectiveness.
Also I would have thought that the hard magnet material would be very prone to smashing under duress, and therefore would stand a high risk of leaving small bits of magnet in the lock, after being bumped, rendering both useless.

[Vennie]

would it be possible to bypass this if you had a strong enough magnet?

[Gordon Airporte]

It might be possible to heat the magnets up enough that they lose their stick, but you'd probably kill the springs and make a pretty big mess in the process. So that wouldn't be a workable bypass.

[greyman]

I may be incorrect here, but what I remember from physics lessons at school (Back in the dark ages) is that if you hit a magnet causing a shock then it will dissipate some of its magnetic properties. Several "bumps" may reduce it effectiveness.
Also I would have thought that the hard magnet material would be very prone to smashing under duress, and therefore would stand a high risk of leaving small bits of magnet in the lock, after being bumped, rendering both useless.

Yes - really good first post Raises a whole lot of interesting questions.

The question about demagnetizing a magnet through bumping is right - a big enough impact could demagnetize the magnet, but I think with neodymium magnets, you would need a very big impact since the have very strong permanent magnetism.

Brittleness - a good point. You could always mount them so that they almost, but not quite, come into contact. Still gives a strong force but slightly less than if they actually touch.

Using stronger springs would increase wear on the key also.

[arbus]

With Neo Magnets you can hit them all day and they wont loose their magnetism.
The one thing they dont like is heat. But as said before if you heat the lock up that much you'll stuff the springs. Also the lock still works as a normal lock.
Trying to reverse their magnetism by magnetising from the outside of the lock probably wont do any good either. These are really strong magnets.
The magnets i used were nickel plated which give them a shiny hard shell. The actual magnet is hard and brittle. (these magnets are available in magnet shops if you want to buy some about 50c ea) They are quite durable. They are encased in the brass pin too.
As far as i can tell they would work in a lock with very few problems. Most of the wear with bottom pins come from the key riding over the pointy bit. The rest of the pins shouldnt wear.
I'm not saying that it is perfect or practical... Just interesting... It dosent really solve the problem of the pins seperating. Needs a shock absorber too.

[I Pik U]

One of the major lock manufacturers has been testing magnetic pins, and other types of tumblers to prevent picking and bumping. Magnetic pins failed their tests.

They used high speed cameras (2000+ frames per second) to see what goes on during bumping and picking, using magnetic pins, wedge shaped pins, and others. I can't remember off hand. Just read about it this past week.

They have come up with a top pin that foils bumping. Only one of these top pins is needed in a 5 pin cylinder. Only a 1,2 or 3 bottom pin works where this top pin is used.

I don't believe it's ready for the market yet, or is, but not yet available. I wanted to post the letter I read, but was told not to, because of copywright.

I will get some more info when it's available.

[I Pik U]

One of the major lock manufacturers has been testing magnetic pins, and other types of tumblers to prevent picking and bumping. Magnetic pins failed their tests.

They used high speed cameras (2000+ frames per second) to see what goes on during bumping and picking, using magnetic pins, wedge shaped pins, and others. I can't remember off hand. Just read about it this past week.

They have come up with a top pin that foils bumping. Only one of these top pins is needed in a 5 pin cylinder. Only a 1,2 or 3 bottom pin works where this top pin is used.

I don't believe it's ready for the market yet, or is, but not yet available. I wanted to post the letter I read, but was told not to, because of copywright.

I will get some more info when it's available.

[Raccoon]

arbus: i have already researched magnetic pins about this same time last year. i even found a manufacturer to produce .115" neodymium pins. but, while the theory is sound, there are still many problems with making this work in practice.

you have to consider how brittle the neodymium is. if the lock can't be bumped open, but a screw driver can still wrench it open, there's no point.

the pins were just too expensive to manufacture with anti-corrosive coatings that would stand up in a lock for 100 years. i believe a 100 year lifetime is an important number for the manufacture of any lock parts.

magnetic drivers are one thing, as there are fewer driver sizes out there. magnetic key pins are quite another, as there are hundreds of sizes out there. the cost in manufacturing this many different magnetic pins was far out of my range.

i considered only magnetic drivers and stainless key pins, but that didn't work. the magnetic force from a .160" x .115"ø magnet against a stainless pin of same size, simply was not enough to keep the two together in objection to the force applied to a bumpkey.

[jla]

You could circumvent the problem of neighboring magnets effecting eachother if you simply don't use magnets in every pin. It seems that it would be easily as effective in preventing picking and bumping. It would also eliminate the need for stronger springs, getting rid of the problem of wear and tear on the lock and key. You could magnetize as few as even two pins with a result, probably very much the same as you are getting with all five megnetized.

-Justin

[arbus]

The force of a bump key or a pick gun is too great to stick the pins together.
@i Pick u. I would like to see the slow motion tests. It seems that when you pick a lock with a master pin or magnets or whatever above the bottom pin, that that pin usually ends up in the top chamber. This is useful if you are making a pick resistant lock. Maybe


Ar

[Raccoon]

Why would it be useful if a magnetic pin or master wafer (or any other break) ends up inside the top chamber? How does this prevent the plug from turning (making it pick resistant)?

[Raymond]

I have never researched this topic directly but would like to offer some observations.

MIWA has used only 7 pins (smaller than 115 diameter) in their locks since they were first available. I tried to open a MIWA padlock by force. I thought the pins would snap. I held the padlock in a vise and used an inpact driver to try to turn the cylinder. I could not shear the pins! I then used a large flat impact driver tip and turned it with an adjustable wrench. The flat driver tip distorted and broke. Tough magnets!

You can lessen the problem of heavy springs by using ball bearings and a master pin instead of a bottom pin. This is not necessary (and not advised due to reduced security) in all pin positions, just the ones with heavy springs. You will wear out a lot less keys too. I use this setup on high traffic doors where the keys and locks wear out very fast.