Warded dimple key

[davou]

Is there any locks that make use of this design? I'm thinking of a warded key that has dimples carved into it that activate the lever only provided pins in it are depressed in the same way a normal tumbler would work.

I imagine it would be hard to get a pick past the wards, and then still manage to manipulate the pins.

[mh]

I've seen pictures of a key that had both a double-bitting (for levers) and dimples (that had to be there so the key could be turned and then further inserted into the lever part) -
I think by Mottura.

Cheers,
mh

[cjames73]

I've seen pictures of a key that had both a double-bitting (for levers) and dimples (that had to be there so the key could be turned and then further inserted into the lever part) -
I think by Mottura.

Cheers,
mh

cisa also make a lock that fits over the keyway of their lever locks.

the key is inserted, turned 90 deg then pushed into the lever lock.
i think this would be almost impossible to pick.

[Eyes_Only]

I think I've seen some of these on eBay before. Looks mighty wicked. I give ToooL about 5 years and someone there will get it open I bet.

[cjames73]

there are tools to open these but they are restricted.
toool are probably working on there own version as we speak

[TOWCH]

I've seen pictures of a key that had both a double-bitting (for levers) and dimples (that had to be there so the key could be turned and then further inserted into the lever part) -
I think by Mottura.

Cheers,
mh

cisa also make a lock that fits over the keyway of their lever locks.

the key is inserted, turned 90 deg then pushed into the lever lock.
i think this would be almost impossible to pick.

It would be a fun excercise in tool design. Warding can really become a headache in high security tooling, but warding compromises the strength of a key so fortunately, they can't make things too nightmarish without making the lock impractical.

[davou]

I've seen pictures of a key that had both a double-bitting (for levers) and dimples (that had to be there so the key could be turned and then further inserted into the lever part) -
I think by Mottura.

Cheers,
mh

cisa also make a lock that fits over the keyway of their lever locks.

the key is inserted, turned 90 deg then pushed into the lever lock.
i think this would be almost impossible to pick.

do you know what sort of mechanism is operated by the notches carved into the (shank?) of that key? (the ones near the bit, not the lettering)

[cjames73]

its a 11 pin tumbler lock.

[davou]

so the lever mechanism has pins inside it too? or are the square cuts just on there to get past the outer lock?

On a related note, this outer lock looks particularly vulnerable to a flush cut saw.... Looks as if it would be easy enough to pry it askew and just attack the two bolts that hold it on, have you worked with it?

[cjames73]

this lock sits directly over the keyway of the lever lock but the pin tumbler keyway is 90deg to the levers keyway.
once the key goes into this first lock it is turned the 90 deg then pushed through into the lever lock.
the key then opens the lever lock in the normal way.
i think bypass of this lock should only be discussed in the advanced forums from now on.

[cjames73]

that last post sounds too confusing,

the lock shown is just a 11 pin tumbler lock which affixes over the keyway of the lever lock.
the dimples on the key operate only this lock allowing the key to turn 90 deg.
once at 90 deg, the key is pushed through this lock and into the lever lock which the bits on the key operate seperately.

[davou]

i think bypass of this lock should only be discussed in the advanced forums from now on.

I didnt realize that sawing constituted that.... sadly I cant even apply for that section till at least a few months. Makes me sad considering it would compliment my trade program.

Its a very interesting lock though!

[Schuyler]

Destructive Entry, in general, is reserved for the advanced forums.

[davou]

ah, I had assumed in my in-experience that the advanced forum was for non destructive bypass heh. Does that mean we cant talk about kicking in a door in these forums?

[Eyes_Only]

You could but I doubt most people there would really offer much advice and support to such a discussion anyways.