Impressioning Qs

[Trip Doctor]

I'll second Rodfather's questions.

[aussielocky]

It's 80 euros I think. No it does not come in PDF.

It's the best book on the subject I have ever seen ..

[Shrub]

Just a small plug here for a friend who just wrote a book on Impressioning. The original book is in German, but the English version has just appeared. ISBN 9783000213083. The book is called: Impressioning - analytic view, technical procedure, forensic report. It has the following email address on page 1: info@tresoroeffnung.de

It is self published, so you probably have to contact the author if you are interested.

Thats Oli's book i was meaning in my first post, its truley excellent but unfortunatley Oli seems to be very slow in getting back to you, ive asked 3 times now (after uninterupted previous discussions) on where to send the money and he simply ignores it so if anyone can get me the english version let me know, as i say CB has it on his website,

[pelham123]

Trip, try this. Before you "bump" the key, that is wrigling and jiggling it . blade the key with your file. That means just removing the nickle coating to get a smooth bright finish. When you bump that key to get those first marks remember it's all in the wrist. You should be using very light pressure similar to tension wrench pressure. That first "bump" is important because it should give you close to the proper spacing. Next is seeing and distinguishing those marks. I see the marks best by going to a window and cupping my hand over the blank to cast a "shadow" on the marks. Go "after" the strong marks and forget the rest. After the initial strong marks disappear the others should begin to appear. This method works well for me and with practice you should be able to impression your average house lock in about 15 minutes.

[Trip Doctor]

Thanks for advice.
I haven't even attempted to impression with a blank yet. (I've just experimented with foil, copper, and stuff towards that.) I thought I should do the basics before going any further with that though. Time to go blank and file shopping (although the prices of those pippin files make me cringe a little.)

[Rodfather23]

hey trip ..........I've been searching the web for files for a couple of weeks now. Foley/Belsaw is the cheapest I've seen. If you don't have a catalog...


A 6 in rat tail #4 cut order no. 5746406 The price in my catalog says $11.25 but when I went to their site it and entered the number it came up as $13.80.

a 6 in #4 cut swiss pippin is $21.50 ( I check this price on the site too and it is correct) order number 5748408

https://www.shopfoley-belsawonline.com/


go to that link and put in the order numbers and you should be set. I thinking shipping was going to be about $7.50 ( I didn't buy yet...just pricing)

[Trip Doctor]

Thanks Rod, I'll probably put it off a couple of weeks as I'll be getting some more practise locks and raimundo's bagotas to play with, but I'll fav. that link. (7 bucks seems a little high for shipping a file.. but I guess the price for the file itself won't be any better much elsewhere.)

Those who used these, do these files last a pretty long time?

[zeke79]

I am by no means an expert on impressioning but will give a few tips to you.

1. Use depth and space info for the lock you are working with. It saves time as you can simply file to the next specified depth when you see a mark. No more taking off .005" inch then repeating, etc.

2. I do not knife edge blanks that will be used to impression pin tumbler locks. I want to see where the marks are showing up on the blank (IE side of the cut or toward the middle, etc). I do however knife edge blanks for wafer locks.

3. Prepare some blanks just for impressioning. Either by hand or with a code machine cut to the first specified manufactures cut in all spaces. This takes some time out of the process as if it is a 1 cut, your cut is already made. Be sure you dont cut quite to manufacturers depth with a machine though. Cut a few thousands less and then use your file to take it down the rest of the way and get the finish needed to see the marks well.

4. Do NOT use a chainsaw sharpening file. It is too course to give the finish needed to see the marks.

Just a few tips off the top of my head for you. It takes alot of practice to master and alot of practice to keep the skill. MBA USA makes a decend hand held impressioning magnifier that uses a mini mag lite for a light source. Might be something to look into. You can also buy blanks for keyproducts.com. You'll have to setup an account, but for blanks you will not need a locksmith license etc. Just a tax number which in the US, you can use your SS# for if you do not have an actual business tax ID #.

[Shrub]

Can you see now why this was better in the appropreate thread?


A quick note on files, i will add that im a good engineer to those that dont know me so my skills are above most when it comes to making things so i can use bad tooling and still produce good stuff BUT......

Any file will do, when i say any i mean theres no need to have to go and spend out on 'special' files,

If you can cut a v in the key the shape of the file is fine, if you can cut a v in the key and leave the surface of the cut smooth and without grooves in it then it will be even better,

I use normal files of the right roughness and in most cases simply use a fine needle file, ive been useing my key machine with dpeth and space keys which certainly leaves a surface worse than any bastard file,

I am not saying those that say start with the proper tools etc are wrong but i am saying that files at that price had better wipe my arse for me before i buy one,

[Trip Doctor]

Can you see now why this was better in the appropreate thread?

Haha, yea, NOW I definetly see .

files at that price had better wipe my arse for me before i buy one

Yea the first time I saw files at prices up to 20 bucks that was exactly my responce, as hardware stores usually sell them for 3-4 bucks. So I think I'll start out trying with my needle files.

Zeke, for your 3rd tip, that's assuming you know that there are no 0 cuts on the keys right?

Another question then: would a triangle file be suitable for making key cuts? The pin would make markings (and rest) on the sides of the valleys (the slopes) would it not? Wouldn't this make it harder to not only see the markings made but measure the cuts as well?

[zeke79]

Yes. What I actually meant to say was prepare your blank to the first possible cut. Whether it is a zero cut or a one cut is determined by manufacturers specs.

[Rodfather23]

well I rekeyed my lock to 2 pins and bought a few of blanks.........now guess what?


I finally could see where the binding pin left an impression!!!



I prepped it with some 240 grit sand paper



thank you very much for the advice on removing some pins freakparade

[freakparade3]

I'm glad it worked for you . I can't take credit for the idea, I read it somewhere. It's how I learned impressioning. You will be up to 5 pins before you know it!

[Rodfather23]

and I just impressioned my 1st key a 2 pin schlage sc1 keyway woot!



But everyone is right.....a chainsaw file is too coarse I had to take some 240 grit and paper, wrap it around the file, and polish with it after each cut I made....in order to see the marks. I finished just in time as my key was beginning to bend on me.



thx for everyones help

[Trip Doctor]

Rodfather, are you holding the lock in your hand, or do you have it mounted in a vise or a door? Those with experience, which do you think is harder? (I personally find picking a mounted lock harder, probably because I never practise like that, but I'm thinking impressioning might be the opposite.) I'd like to practise on a nonmounted lock, since then I could watch some TV and mess with it .