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Stepping up the Learning Curve

Picked all the easy locks and want to step up your game? Further your lock picking techniques, exchange pro tips, videos, lessons, and develop your skills here.

Stepping up the Learning Curve

Postby le.nutzman » 1 Jul 2007 5:18

First off, let me apologize ahead of time, as this might end up being a long posting.

I have, for the lack of better terms, hit a wall with my lockpicking abilities. I have struggled, for probably over 2 months trying to open some very loose plugged, but otherwise should be easy to open Masterlock padlocks. I've have managed to open 1 out of 12 during this time.

So last night, i was in chat casually talking and trying to come up with words that better describe the 4 states of pins within the lock. You know the ones, unset, binding, set, and overset/binding. While these words are good, they don't fully describe to me what i'm doing wrong. Needless to say, after having this conversation with another member in the forum, i'm still somewhat at a loss.

So that brings me to the present time. Back to basics, i'm obviously missing something. Somewhere in my level of frustration, i have skipped, bypassed, and or forgotten probably the most insignificant yet critical aspect. Visualization is good, practicing on a more than regular basis, reading and reading and reading. So what was missing?

Feeling. At some point in the development of my skills, i went from step 1 all the way through and then lost it, but not completely. I have gotten to the point where I use a variety of tools, still looking for that one pair of tension wrench and pick that give me the best feedback on what i'm doing in the lock. But that's not everything I needed. I needed to know what the feeling of the pin actually binding felt like again. And not just a standard pin because most of the locks I deal with on a daily basis are the American 5200 padlocks. Spoorated upper and lowers, yeah, as someone else once said, "they can litereally take the wind out of your sails."

The question was how to get the feeling back, how can I "feel" what these pins feel like. Then it dawned on me. Flipping back through the comprehensive exercises on this site, I found what I needed. Taking the basic exercise previously outlined by DB, I took it one step, ok maybe a few steps further. Using the core of an American 5200 padlock, I went through the various phases as a brief refresher to see if the "feeling" that I was missing was somewhere in there. Then I went back through the steps, this time though, I used a single security pin. Starting with the Key pin position, I lifted it 20-30 times slowly with no tension, then again with light tension, and again with enough tension to cause it to "catch" on it's inherent security feature and then picking it to open. Then, instead of adding a pin, I used the same pin and moved it back one position. I did this exercise with both spool and serrated pins, and i found the "feeling" that i had lost. Pins break differently at the different positions in the lock, and i would associate this being due to what someone had previously pointed out in the forums, "the amount of tension to set pins further back from the key pin tends to be greater than the amount needed to set the keypin." I found this true in my exercise. Using barely any fingerweight tension on a single pin in the keypin position was all that it took, yet in the 4th and 5th position, I actually had to rest my finger almost completely on the tension wrench. I felt this neccessary to know, especially when you're dealing with security pins because of the differences in how they set when you falsely set them.

Granted, i haven't remastered that feeling, however, I have reidentified it. And sometimes, just knowing that you've overlooked something so insignificant, yet so vital isn't enough. You have to find it all over again and not take it for granted.

I know everyone has bad days, hell this past week i lost to two different locks. I don't know the full reasons why, but after today's exercises, I have a much better chance of not losing in the future. And thankfully I can still get through my repinned 5 spool Amercian confidence booster lock. I hope everyone can learn from this "additional exercise".
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Postby Shrub » 1 Jul 2007 5:32

Ive had a month of not being able to even pick my nose then suddenly the other day everything started popping again and i can pick to thre same extent i could before,

It was like a switch being turned on and off,

I did no practiceing in between, one day i couldnt pick the next i did,

THE only differance has been a bad cold ive struggled to shake off but now have, unless its somthign to do with the inner ear i cant see that making any differance though,
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Postby n00bking » 1 Jul 2007 8:11

I buy a Master Lock no. 3 waterproof. The night I get it, I can pick it probably 1 in every 2 attempts. Like I try to pick it, let go of tension, then pick it. Really easy, I am getting the hang of it. Go to bed, the next morning can pick it like 1 in every 5 or 7 tries. Now I can't get it at all...I really suck at lockpicking....
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Postby Iceberg_Slim » 1 Jul 2007 12:05

dont base your skills on opening master locks, the tolerances in the production and manufacturing process for master locks is horrible, i have a couple of them where the plug is loose and its hard to open because of the extremely crappy tolerances not because it has better security.
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Postby Afisch » 1 Jul 2007 14:48

Seems what your doing is going well but it may be worth using normal cylinders rather than a padlock for practicing, (usualy) better tollerances, and you dont have to overcome any extra resistance that that of the springs and pins, which could distort the feel of a lock. Good luck :)
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Postby LockNewbie21 » 1 Jul 2007 16:27

DO waht I do, just do think about it.

The more you think the more your crank tension and try harder.

Just throw them to the side and do something else come back and they will open.
[deadlink]http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h17/Locknewbie21/LockNewbie21Sig.jpg[/img]
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Postby le.nutzman » 1 Jul 2007 21:28

Seems what your doing is going well but it may be worth using normal cylinders rather than a padlock for practicing, (usualy) better tollerances, and you dont have to overcome any extra resistance that that of the springs and pins, which could distort the feel of a lock.


Good point, however due to my location over here and what i do, padlocks are the only thing i have access to. Anything to do with KIK belongs to our contractors and i wouldn't mess with anyways because they're euro double sided cam locks that can be raked open in about 10 seconds so there really isn't a challenge to pick them.
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Postby GutterClown » 19 Jul 2007 4:56

n00bking wrote:I buy a Master Lock no. 3 waterproof. The night I get it, I can pick it probably 1 in every 2 attempts. Like I try to pick it, let go of tension, then pick it. Really easy, I am getting the hang of it. Go to bed, the next morning can pick it like 1 in every 5 or 7 tries. Now I can't get it at all...I really suck at lockpicking....


Why do people insist on picking master padlocks. I personally hate the things, because of aforementioned dodgy manufacturing, and overall lack of quality.

master padlocks are in no way 'master' quality. they're too inconsistant to learn to pick, from my experiance.
go find an old five pin 201 cylinder and learn on that.

but don't over-use it. I've seen youtube videos of people 'speed-picking' 20 padlocks in 60 seconds. that's great, until you see their videos from 3 months ago with the same locks. the pins and plug are probably so chewed out a screwdriver could turn them.
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Postby GutterClown » 19 Jul 2007 4:58

n00bking wrote:I buy a Master Lock no. 3 waterproof. The night I get it, I can pick it probably 1 in every 2 attempts. Like I try to pick it, let go of tension, then pick it. Really easy, I am getting the hang of it. Go to bed, the next morning can pick it like 1 in every 5 or 7 tries. Now I can't get it at all...I really suck at lockpicking....


Why do people insist on picking master padlocks. I personally hate the things, because of aforementioned dodgy manufacturing, and overall lack of quality.

master padlocks are in no way 'master' quality. they're too inconsistant to learn to pick, from my experiance.
go find an old five pin 201 cylinder and learn on that.

but don't over-use it. I've seen youtube videos of people 'speed-picking' 20 padlocks in 60 seconds. that's great, until you see their videos from 3 months ago with the same locks. the pins and plug are probably so chewed out a screwdriver could turn them.
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Postby le.nutzman » 19 Jul 2007 5:43

Why do people insist on picking master padlocks. I personally hate the things, because of aforementioned dodgy manufacturing, and overall lack of quality.

master padlocks are in no way 'master' quality.


Funny you should mention this, considering the military, at least the Army, uses extensively Masterlock and American 5200. Perhaps you missed it the first time I said it, due to my location, these are the only types of locks I can get my hands on.

Perhaps you hate them because you have an overbearing difficulty in picking them. I used to but I kept practicing on the cut ones I could find and i got better. Now i can pick them as easily as some of the American 5200s I also have, which i've repinned several times and can still pick them. Don't knock the brand cause it's not like i have a huge selection to choose from here. Over 70% of the personally owned locks i've picked were also Master as well.

I personally enjoy picking the Masterlock padlocks despite the headache i might have from trying too much. Just proves to me that despite the "poor manufacturing" i'm still able to defeat such a device.
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Postby le.nutzman » 19 Jul 2007 5:44

Why do people insist on picking master padlocks. I personally hate the things, because of aforementioned dodgy manufacturing, and overall lack of quality.

master padlocks are in no way 'master' quality.


Funny you should mention this, considering the military, at least the Army, uses extensively Masterlock and American 5200. Perhaps you missed it the first time I said it, due to my location, these are the only types of locks I can get my hands on.

Perhaps you hate them because you have an overbearing difficulty in picking them. I used to but I kept practicing on the cut ones I could find and i got better. Now i can pick them as easily as some of the American 5200s I also have, which i've repinned several times and can still pick them. Don't knock the brand cause it's not like i have a huge selection to choose from here. Over 70% of the personally owned locks i've picked were also Master as well.

I personally enjoy picking the Masterlock padlocks despite the headache i might have from trying too much. Just proves to me that despite the "poor manufacturing" i'm still able to defeat such a device.
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fit of tools etc

Postby raimundo » 19 Jul 2007 7:28

master padlocks have a loose cylinder in a laminiated shell, the bottom lamination comes over this cylinder in a lip, when you put tension on the cylinder, the edge of the tensor blade touches this lamination, if you have picked the same master lock many times, you will find this spot on the bottom lamination has a shiny spot. the contact with the rough cut/break edge of this hole, (cut break is the type of edge on a stamped part, particularly if the punch and die have a wide tolerance of clearance,
it looks like straight lines, where the punch pushed the metal into the die, then fracture where the material breaks off along this cut) will jam the tension sometimes.
The cylinder also can become eroded at the bottom where a rough edged tensor blade has cut into the cylinder wall. this is an obstacle to picking.

My recommendations on picking a master laminated padlock that is giveing trouble,

First, try the opposite direction, these locks open both ways and sometimes for an unknown reason, its easier to pick the other way.

Second, try a wider blade tensor or tension at the top of the keyway or a split tensor, anything to change the tension factor.

Many common tensors will get into a position where they are not turning the cylinder if they become stuck and are putting the force into the cylinder wall. if you tensor is not loose, stuck at all, it is doing this.

If all this dosent help, look to your picks, master lock cylinders are tiny, your picks may be too large, even if you have picked other master locks with them, a smaller pick may be the trick. You have to make them yourself, as they don't sell them like that, most commercial picks have wide shafts.

key bitting is another picking difficulty, things like hi low combinations or another one is all low bitting, the average picker wants to lift the pins, but if the pins are long, this may be the problem. many padlocks can be shaken to hear if the bottom pins are loose, but with the loose cylinder in the master padlock, you will have to hold the cylinder from moving to do that.

If I can find your address today, I have some key blanks to send you, there are only a few, but I did get them, I have had them for a week but finding your address is the hangup, I may get it out to you today if I find that.
Wake up and smell the Kafka!!!
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Postby yng_pick » 22 Jul 2007 21:22

I have run into the same problems.

Basically- I forget about tension. I'll sometimes have bad luck picking, and so I'll go back and practice on a handfull of locks. Usually I am able to pick them half the time, and I will be frustrated til I remember the importance of using the right amount of tension that the particular lock needs. After that, everything starts to fall into place all over again.

I swear I need a tattoo on my finger that says 'tension', or 'torque'.. a constant reminder.
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Postby yng_pick » 22 Jul 2007 21:23

I have run into the same problems.

Basically- I forget about tension. I'll sometimes have bad luck picking, and so I'll go back and practice on a handfull of locks. Usually I am able to pick them half the time, and I will be frustrated til I remember the importance of using the right amount of tension that the particular lock needs. After that, everything starts to fall into place all over again.

I swear I need a tattoo on my finger that says 'tension', or 'torque'.. a constant reminder.
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Postby freakparade3 » 22 Jul 2007 22:23

VillageKeyGuy wrote:I swear I need a tattoo on my finger that says 'tension', or 'torque'.. a constant reminder.


No need for a tattoo. Download a song called "Tension" by Todd Snider. Play it every time you pick, it's a great song and a constant reminder. :wink:
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