most accurate key duplication machines?

[godxilla]

Hi - i am looking to find out how many generations of someone's house key can be duplicated by the average key machine and still work the lock.

any advice.

thanks

[Jaakko]

That is not a good practice, as all the duplicates will be different from another and usually gets worse enough on the second round. Always cut by code a new one or duplicate from a new key.

[CVScam]

I have run into this issue a few times when I used to work for a property management company. If the lock was a KW1 I saw keys that were 4th generation still work. I have also seen copies made from the original key by those Axxess key machines(the ones that have those idiot proof plastic boxes) that failed. It seems like the skill of the key machine operater plays a big part in how accurate the copy will be.

[lunchb0x]

most importantly the key cutter needs to be cleaned, serviced and calibrated, there is no point cutting from an original, or any key if the machine is out of alignment.

And like CVSam said, knowing how to use the cutter properly is a big part, if you are cutting alot of keys, from looking at them you wil get an idea of how badly worn the key is and if the customer says the key is clicky in the lock then the key is very worn so if you cut it abit shallower it would most likely still work and not be clicky, or as clicky in the lock

[Eyes_Only]

I think it also depends on how well your key machine is calibrated too. Any time I make a copy of a copy I back off the micrometer by .001 or just below it to make up for the decrease in the copy's quality, but thats just me.

[zeke79]

As stated, it depends on how well your machine is calibrated and how well it holds tolerances. My Ilco 040 dups within .001" so on schlage I can get by with 5 generations or so and still have a working key. Kwikset I can get away with the same or a bit more.

Better to cut a bit too deep than too shallow though.

[godxilla]

has anyone acctually measured the accuracy of thier machine in thou's?

Has anyone that the tooth patterns may be affecting the accuracy of the machine for each tooth?

[godxilla]

when you guys say "generations"---Is the master the 1st generation OR is the first copy the 1st generation?

[lunchb0x]

i dont messure mine, to calibrate it i place a blank in each vise and adjust the tracer untill the cutter is just hitting the blank

[linty]

when I calibrate my machines I make it accurate enough to work smoothly after 3 generations (copy of a copy of a copy). I haven't really tested to see how many generations more you'd have to go before it stopped working but i'd guess at least 6 is feasible.

However this is a good machine, a bravo II. And even in the best machines if you push harder or softer you will make a difference, so experience and consistency will play a role as well.

[WOT]

when I calibrate my machines I make it accurate enough to work smoothly after 3 generations (copy of a copy of a copy). I haven't really tested to see how many generations more you'd have to go before it stopped working but i'd guess at least 6 is feasible.

However this is a good machine, a bravo II. And even in the best machines if you push harder or softer you will make a difference, so experience and consistency will play a role as well.

No matter what I do, my ilco 025 won't get much better than +/- 3/1000".

Key cutter is like a photocopy machine and with each generation, you get a fresh blank/paper, but each generation deteriorates.

How many generations you can go entirely depend on the conditions of the lock, original key and calibration of the machine.

[Eyes_Only]

No matter what I do, my ilco 025 won't get much better than +/- 3/1000".

Key cutter is like a photocopy machine and with each generation, you get a fresh blank/paper, but each generation deteriorates.

How many generations you can go entirely depend on the conditions of the lock, original key and calibration of the machine.

That is a really good illustration. Never thought to compare a key machine to a photocopy machine. I'm gonna use that when describing this very thing to someone next time.

[lockpicker69]

yer i defo like the photo copy machine explanation lol will be using that 2.
i use a cea naty its gota be 20yrs old and i always use 2 assa original copies and do the tracing method but what i really want is a silca ultrcode .
one day maybe

[godxilla]

yer i defo like the photo copy machine explanation lol will be using that 2.
i use a cea naty its gota be 20yrs old and i always use 2 assa original copies and do the tracing method but what i really want is a silca ultrcode .
one day maybe

i have an ultracode i can sell you. perfect condition... let me know if ur interested...

[lockpicker69]

hi
i am intrested in your ultracode what model is it please and where abouts are you from ?
thanks richard