My first master bump key!

[Wrenchman]

So what do you think?

Absolutely terrible!

Well, does it work?

Yeah it works!

Miracle!!!

But don't worry, you just need practise, keep it up!



Wrenchman

[tmaxx258]

Here is the key after mods

[Wrenchman]

You've got to be kidding!

*Warning, in case you are not kidding:

This key, will go into the keyway unto the first pin, and no further, and it won't come out again!



Wrenchman

[tmaxx258]

Yeah right it fits in there just fine

[Wrenchman]

, Well good for you then, keep it up!



Wrenchman

[tmaxx258]

Can you show me what a good master bump key looks like?

[freakparade3]

Zeke posted a picture in this link. viewtopic.php?t=22546&start=15

[mercurial]

Yeah right it fits in there just fine

If that 'modified' key you last posted is easily inserted and removed from the lock, then I'd say your lock is badly damaged - quite possibly from trying to bump it.

I think inserting that key into a new Master#3 would result in exactly what Wrenchman describes above.

I lost interest in bumping very quickly, but I experimented enough to be able to say that with the right feel/timing, and a decent bump-hammer, you only need to tap the key, not slam it into the lock, as seen on many bumping videos online.

The link above to the picture of a M1 bumpkey by Zeke79 should really help you out.

...Mark

[mercurial]

Yeah right it fits in there just fine

If that 'modified' key you last posted is easily inserted and removed from the lock, then I'd say your lock is badly damaged - quite possibly from trying to bump it.

I think inserting that key into a new Master#3 would result in exactly what Wrenchman describes above.

I lost interest in bumping very quickly, but I experimented enough to be able to say that with the right feel/timing, and a decent bump-hammer, you only need to tap the key, not slam it into the lock, as seen on many bumping videos online.

The link above to the picture of a M1 bumpkey by Zeke79 should really help you out.

...Mark

[Shrub]

That key needs throwing away now and starting again,

If you had shown that one forst and then the one you initially showed second you would have had replies like 'thats way much better' but the other way around shows youve not even read the link i sent you to, the key you have now is absolute crap but i shal tel you why,

I am guessing that youve come into this wanting to open locks quickly for whatever reason (i have my own ideas) and have come across bumping, it seems to me youve made no effort in looking into how a lock works, why bumping works or how picking works,

A lock uses springs and pins, there are top pins, bottom pins and springs,

The key needs to hit the bottom pins to bounce the top pins to create a gap so the plug can turn,

What this means is that the key needed.

Hang on i cant be arsed, you need to read the guide ive linked you to,

You key is crap because there are no angles on the sides of the cut, pushing it into a lock wil see the pins spring between the cuts and then with no slopes to push the pins up again wil jam the key,

You mention that the key fits the lock just fine which says that the spaces are wrong or the width of cut is wrong, im guessing youve cut too deep with your cuts and havent put a wide enough cut in,

You do realise that theres a measured depth you should be fileing to and not just making the vallies as deep as you can? the fact that key goes in and out tells me the pins are only riding on the very top of the cuts where youve slightly angled them again showing the cuts are either too deep or too narrown,


As i say throw tht away and start again but this time read up and see what you are suposed to be doing, your first go was a reasonable effort but now this is just any other bum key thread,

[raimundo]

neither key is good as I see them, but you can make it better, do not be so intent on making the peaks high both of yours are too high, take the peaks on the key you showed last and cut the peaks so that the slope of the sides is 45 degrees and this should improve it

in both keys, the angle of the slopes was too steep, this will eventually cause real problems, as the key will either be hard to insert or impossible to pull out, the 45 degree angle is necessary to lift the pins smoothly as you put the key in and pull it out.

by cutting the sides of those peaks to 45 degrees, you will lower the peaks height somewhat, that is ok, as they are exaggeratedly high right now. because the 45 degree angle is the efficient cam angle to lift the pins, it will be the best angle for bumping the pins as well.

[mercurial]

You key is crap because there are no angles on the sides of the cut, pushing it into a lock wil see the pins spring between the cuts and then with no slopes to push the pins up again wil jam the key,

I absolutely agree...

but looking at his picture of the key, this confuses me :

You mention that the key fits the lock just fine which says that the spaces are wrong or the width of cut is wrong, im guessing youve cut too deep with your cuts and havent put a wide enough cut in,

When I look at the 'modified' key, it seems to me that once first pin in the lock rides up the ramp of the key's tip, and is pushed down again by the spring, the key is already jammed (as Wrenchman already described).

The shape of the cut closest to the tip means that the key should not even go in further than the first cut, before becoming jammed.

Even with really messed up spacing, and the little angled peaks he has on the top of each peak, I really cannot understand how this key can go past the first pin (let alone come out again!!), unless the lock is very badly damaged.

As soon as the first pin has dropped into the cut closest to the tip, the key should be stuck, unable to be further inserted, or removed.

Surely him saying the key works just fine means the lock in question has been beaten to death?

...Mark

[mercurial]

You key is crap because there are no angles on the sides of the cut, pushing it into a lock wil see the pins spring between the cuts and then with no slopes to push the pins up again wil jam the key,

I absolutely agree...

but looking at his picture of the key, this confuses me :

You mention that the key fits the lock just fine which says that the spaces are wrong or the width of cut is wrong, im guessing youve cut too deep with your cuts and havent put a wide enough cut in,

When I look at the 'modified' key, it seems to me that once first pin in the lock rides up the ramp of the key's tip, and is pushed down again by the spring, the key is already jammed (as Wrenchman already described).

The shape of the cut closest to the tip means that the key should not even go in further than the first cut, before becoming jammed.

Even with really messed up spacing, and the little angled peaks he has on the top of each peak, I really cannot understand how this key can go past the first pin (let alone come out again!!), unless the lock is very badly damaged.

As soon as the first pin has dropped into the cut closest to the tip, the key should be stuck, unable to be further inserted, or removed.

Surely him saying the key works just fine means the lock in question has been beaten to death?

...Mark

[Shrub]

Yes you are right but a key could be pushed in in this state if the first cuts were high ones or as i suspect especially on these locks that the lock is full of high cuts and the key possably looks like a 11111 key,

[mercurial]

Yes you are right but a key could be pushed in in this state if the first cuts were high ones or as i suspect especially on these locks that the lock is full of high cuts and the key possably looks like a 11111 key,

Sorry if I'm missing something really obvious, but as I visualise it, even with a one cut in the first position (front of cylinder), when the ramp of the tip of the key pushes the stack up, and passes that chamber, the spring will push that stack back down, into that canyon(I refuse to call that a valley!) leaving the driver-pin blocking the key from moving in or out of the keyway (given the shape of the cuts)?

...Mark