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Tamper Resistant Lock Concept

Information about locks themselves. Questions, tips and lock diagram information should be posted here.

Postby Shrub » 20 Jul 2007 5:50

I came up with a simular idea loing time ago for anyi bumping but it was only a throwaway jokey answer, ill try and address the flaws as i see them if your intertested,

Manufacturing cost too much,

Accuracy non existant unless pins are ground thus more cost,

The lock would still be easily picked if not more so because you would be able to chip off the corners of the pins and make the binding easier,

Wear,

Inserting the key could break the pins,

Dropping the lock or heavy bumps in delivery could break the locks,

Someone kicking the door could break the lock,

Someone slamming the door could break the lock,

Broken seal means broken lock means locksmith callout everytime,

Spool pins that have edges broken off the steps would then leave glass bits that jam the lock,

A bump key would destry the lock,

Theres others but i think you ger the idea,

You are trying to invent somthign already hapily covered, you describe a tamper seal which are alreay out there in a much easier package like tie wraps etc, useualy somthing needs to be locked or sealed if its both theres hardware on the doors thayt allow both in which case you can then have insurance approved locks for locking (a glass pinned lock would never be alowed to be used as a locking device as a hit on the front will render the lock useless even a screwdriver would open it in less time than the key), for sealing they use just that, a seal, thats anything that can be seen to be intact or not hence entry to the area has been gained or not,

What you have done is come up with somthing that will not fit in either scenario, you have a lock that will not be suitable for locking anything up and a lock that is pretty useless as a seal,

Fair idea but pointless developing it, keep thinking and come up with somthing worth developing :wink:
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True Dat lol...

Postby Dragunov-21 » 20 Jul 2007 23:01

True dat, like I said, a halfbaked concept, but it got me thinking, which is progress after all :lol:

And I've gone for a locksmithing apprenticeship recently, so with any luck I might be able to come up with some more sound ideas sometime.

Cheers.
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Trap pin lock

Postby Raymond » 21 Jul 2007 0:10

"Hines Key System" by Segal was designed with a trap pin system. If someone tried to pick it, the smaller diameter master wafer fell into a hole allowing the top pin to drop into another hole when the lock plug was turned about 15 degrees. If activated, this lock had to be drilled or taken apart to reset. Im glad it never caught on.
Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool. Wisdom is not just in determining how to do something, but also includes determining whether it should be done at all.
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Postby TheMikeMan » 22 Jul 2007 11:23

hey i dont know if you notice this or not, but if you insert a blank or very shallow cut key into the cylinder and turn it then the pins would break and the lock would open. Doesnt seem secure at all but it would allow people to seee if it has been tampered with (by then its too late though). That might have sounded bad but its just what i first thought upon seeing the diagram.
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Re: Trap pin lock

Postby Dragunov-21 » 26 Jul 2007 21:13

Raymond wrote:"Hines Key System" by Segal was designed with a trap pin system. If someone tried to pick it, the smaller diameter master wafer fell into a hole allowing the top pin to drop into another hole when the lock plug was turned about 15 degrees. If activated, this lock had to be drilled or taken apart to reset. Im glad it never caught on.


Why didn't it catch on?
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Hines not catching on?

Postby Raymond » 26 Jul 2007 23:19

I have no true idea. It could be beaten easily by using a plug spinner to pass the lockout pin. But, I would not want a lock that would lock me out just because someone else tried to pick it or used a similar but wrong key. Sure, you would know that someone was tampering with it but the cost and trouble to put it back to operating would be a considerable niusance. Besides, today there are way toooo many better and higher security locks as well as video cameras to provide security.
Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool. Wisdom is not just in determining how to do something, but also includes determining whether it should be done at all.
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Postby mercurial » 28 Jul 2007 21:30

n2oah wrote:It depends. TOOOL once tested a lock with trap pins(does anybody remember the name of it), and they could never pick/bump the lock, even when trying to keep the trap pins in place when rotating, or trying to force the trap pins back up.


The lock in question tested by Toool is the Mitchel & Collin (M&K) Antiklop.

...Mark
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Postby greyman » 9 Aug 2007 16:30

Is that the same as the M&C? I think Barry Wels had a hand in the design of that lock, or at least was involved in its promotion.
Image
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Postby n2oah » 9 Aug 2007 21:54

greyman wrote:Is that the same as the M&C? I think Barry Wels had a hand in the design of that lock, or at least was involved in its promotion.


I believe it is. It looks like the M&K was just a typographical error.
"Lockpicking is what robbing is all about!" says Jim King.
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