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Narrow Keyholes

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

Narrow Keyholes

Postby Oliwerko » 30 Jul 2007 11:36

Hello there.

I searched, but I haven't found anything like this, so I'm asking. Don't throw stones on me if it was already mentioned somewhere, please :)

After I managed to pick basic 5-pin euro cylinders, I moved to more expensive ones to see why they are so expensive :D

I have disassembled the lock and found only a few differences:
1. Security Pins - 3 of 5 are spools - don't know if it's problem for me. I want to ask how hard is it to pick a lock with spools after you know the basics.
2. Narrow and curvy keyhole - here my real problem is. How do you pick a lock with really narow and curvy keyhole ? Do I have to just use less wide picks ( For example not the longest hook but only the half lenght hook ) ? Or is there another trick ? Or is it just practice moving the pick through the curves ?

Thanks in advance
Oliwerko
 
Posts: 53
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Location: Slovakia - yes, that little dot on the map under Poland!

Postby TigerDragon » 30 Jul 2007 11:40

There are lots of posts on how to pick a spool pin already. The plug will turn, but you can apply more pressure with the pick to check it. If the pin goes up and the plug turns back a little, it's probably a spool or mushroom. Just push it up further to get it set. If the pin doesn't go up any more, and the plug doesn't move, it's set.

You probably want to invest in slimline picks for the narrower keyway.

Hope this helps.
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Postby Shrub » 30 Jul 2007 12:22

I want to ask how hard is it to pick a lock with spools after you know the basics.


Knowing is differant to doing, if you know the basicis then the picking is the same, if you can pick the basic locks then you should be ok to move on but it will be a challenge,

You have already stripped the lock so before putting it bak together remove all but one of the stacks that contain a spool pin then re-assemble, after you have done that simply start again on the learning curve of learnign to pick the spools,

As said its mentioned a lot and i type a guide quite ften so if you want to have a look around for more info on the picking of them feel free, i apprechiate you didnt ask how to pick spool pins but i will give you a brief summery anyway,

To pick a spool pin requires careful control of the tension wrench, the very light and slight 'bouncing' of the wrench when picking a spool pin will allow you to lift the pin above the narrow part of the sides,
If you feel it set you simply let off the tension and lift the pin higher for the real set,

Another way is to find which are spool pins then reset the lock, once you start picking again lift the spool pins a lot higher than they need to be and then let them drop down carefully to the proper set, this almost bypasses the spool aspect of the pin,


To find a spool pin in the lock to begin with is as tiger said, basicaly once a pin is set the continual pushing of that pin will try to spin the plug back against the tension, this si the false setting of the pin and that one needs to be lifted higher, a fasle set pin will let the plg rotate slightly and then stop it dead with no other pin setting making any differance,




How do you pick a lock with really narow and curvy keyhole ?


You need to use slimline picks, the picks do not need or have to be under the pins as in vertically directly underneath, as long as you can push the pin in and feel it through the pick it doesnt matter how its positioned,

What this means is that you can slid the pick along one of the wards and come in from the side or other various ways you will find if you try to get the pick in there,

Obviously small tight keyways need small tools, dont try picking a lock with the biggest hook you have instead you will need a small hook for example,

What make and model is your lock? do you have a pic of the keyway? ive picked some very tight keyways and still got slimlines in enough to pick the lock, locks with keyways that tight are not that regular so yours may not be quite as tight as you initially think,


Do I have to just use less wide picks ( For example not the longest hook but only the half lenght hook ) ?


Less wide means thinner, a thinner pick than a slimline isnt neccasary, if you mean the height of the pick then yes, see above,

Or is there another trick ?


See above,

Or is it just practice moving the pick through the curves ?


Yes, everythign is practice practice practice, you are only merely treading where others already have so sit down, think about things and just try :wink:

Hope this helps,
Shrub
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Postby Oliwerko » 30 Jul 2007 12:48

Thanks for the valuable info.

Less wide means thinner, a thinner pick than a slimline isnt neccasary, if you mean the height of the pick then yes, see above,


You're right, I meant the height of the pick.


I have ONLY slim line picks, because of I live in Slovakia in central Europe. So as far as I know the keyholes here are thinner (and the pins are down, so I don't lift, I push them down).
My problem was not in the thickness of the hole, but the curves made me cry sometimes.

I'll try to follow digital_blue's tutorial with spool pins instead of normal.


Thanks again, I'll try the things mentioned above..
Oliwerko
 
Posts: 53
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Location: Slovakia - yes, that little dot on the map under Poland!

Postby Oliwerko » 31 Jul 2007 12:08

Here is the pic of the lock I'm picking:

http://www.klice-lbc.ufouni.cz/data/mec ... zky/10.jpg


It's very difficult to move the pick through the curves...
Oliwerko
 
Posts: 53
Joined: 6 Sep 2006 15:13
Location: Slovakia - yes, that little dot on the map under Poland!

Postby Shrub » 31 Jul 2007 12:21

Hmm right ok, i dont want to upset or offend you in anyway but thats a normal keyway :wink:

This is a keyway i consider on the tight side but again ive picked these including this actual one with normal slimline picks,

Image
Shrub
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Postby Oliwerko » 31 Jul 2007 13:03

No offence taken, It's valuable info you give me here.

Well, that's really narrow. Actually, I can push the pin down, but it takes more time and it's harder than in a wider keyhole.

So I realize it's probably only about how tricky your hands are in pushing the pins down 8)
Oliwerko
 
Posts: 53
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Location: Slovakia - yes, that little dot on the map under Poland!

Postby Eyes_Only » 31 Jul 2007 13:28

I use a Peterson Slender Reach for locks with paracentric keyways. The tool is very thin and flexible so I can wiggle it around many different types of tricky overlapping wardings.
If a lock is a puzzle, then its key is the complete picture
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Postby Oliwerko » 1 Aug 2007 7:26

Shrub I wonder which pick did you use to pick that lock on the picture ?
( Also from which set, if I may ask )
Oliwerko
 
Posts: 53
Joined: 6 Sep 2006 15:13
Location: Slovakia - yes, that little dot on the map under Poland!

Postby Shrub » 1 Aug 2007 7:40

I cant remember but i copied the pic from my post in the thread called tight keyways or somthing simular, if i get time ill find you the link,

It would have been more than 1 pick and maybe 3 which is the other thing, you dont have to only use one pick, set some pins then keeping the tension swap tools,

I use south ord picks so it was likely those as its unlikely to have been the falles and i never use the small majestic set i have due to how crap the picks are,
Shrub
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Postby Oliwerko » 1 Aug 2007 11:37

Thanks, I'll search for it.

I also use southord ones, I bought euro slim line 22 piece set, and I'm happy with it. I also use more picks on one lock, didn't think about it when I asked, sorry. But half of the picks in the set are lying there without use though. At 90% I use only hooks and small diamond. I never succeeded in raking :cry:
Oliwerko
 
Posts: 53
Joined: 6 Sep 2006 15:13
Location: Slovakia - yes, that little dot on the map under Poland!

Postby Shrub » 1 Aug 2007 11:46

Here you go mate :wink:
Shrub
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visualise it

Postby raimundo » 2 Aug 2007 7:45

Look at the warding on shrubs photo of the EVVA then visualize the drillings in the plug, and you can understand that with all that warding, the essential area where the pick goes under the pin is more open, and while the warding will restrict movement of the pickshaft, you can still work the pin lifting a bit less restricted. the absolute best pick for this situation would be roundshafted, such as a hook made of piano wire. Round shafts are the least likely to get jammed in the warding. they will always be able to rotate, and by doing so, manipulate the hook tip.

next best is a slimline pick with the edges rounded and sanded. the rounding makes it less likely to be restricted by the sharp angles of the warding.
Wake up and smell the Kafka!!!
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Postby Shrub » 2 Aug 2007 13:41

If you click my www button your lock has the same keyway as shown on that and you should see how the pick fits :wink:
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Postby Oliwerko » 3 Aug 2007 11:47

Yeah, I tried it with 1 pin, then 2 pins and so on, now I'm on 3 pins in the lock and I can pick it without any problems - I found the holes drilled in the warding, it's ok to push the pins down when I select the correct tension tool - gave up my favourite one with twist and moved to a smaller one - what a big difference !
Oliwerko
 
Posts: 53
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