Could someone lend me some tips on a cut-away Master 140?

[Nox]

Hey everybody, I'm going to attempt to make a cut-away lock with my master 140, but I'd like to get some advice before I start, seeing as how all my files are by hand, and this can take a while--Not that I mind, I enjoy it.

I searched the forums before I posted, but if I overlooked alot of threads that talk about this, then I'm really sorry, and you can go ahead and close this.

Ok, so if someone could give me some advice on creating a cut-away out of this lock, that'd be great. I just don't want to mess anything up, y'know?

Alright, thanks everyone.

[n00bking]

Well on the master lock 140's key, and most keys in the world to pin tumbler locks, there is a thing called the shoulder.

I am assuming you know what this is correct?

Like when you put the key into the lock as far as it goes, the thing that stops it from going in any farther. Like put the key into the lock. And like the thing that sticks out that you turn is the head, but the things that stops it from going in any farther is the head.

Take the key and put it on the side of the lock...like as if you were going to put it into the keyway, but...you...well put the key like this

like on top of the lock.



and then just make a little mark where each of the pins are, (4 marks all together) And then file each one of the marks until you get to the pins, although you don't want to file down the pins mind you.

understand?

[Nox]

Yeah, I know what the shoulder is.

Thanks, Noobking, that sounds like a great idea.

[n2oah]

Sounds like a horrible idea to me. You're going to file into the pins, and ruin the springs. The lock probably won't work after you're done. First remove the cylinder if possible, and cut it away first. Then work on the body of the lock. If the cylinder is not removeable, you might as well abandon the lock because cutting it away will be too difficult, and the result won't be very good.

[Nox]

Ahh...So that's a bad idea?

Umm, is it possible to remove the core from this lock?

[Nox]

Ahh...So that's a bad idea?

Umm, is it possible to remove the core from this lock?

[nekret]

More likely than not you will ruin that lock unless you have the internal measurements of the plug, cam and levers. I'd suggest using a laminated padlock. Tearing a laminated padlock apart and cutting the layers in small groups of 2-3 layers at a time allows you to make some pretty fine cuts and the plug can be easily removed once you get the bolts out. My current project is a master 15 and so far it is turning out pretty well. I have cut holes for both levers and one for the cylinder. Since the cylinder is easily removed, I cut away half of the bible for showing the springs and top pins. Soon I will be cutting part of the shell and the plug to reveal the bottom pins as well.

To make the lock easily serviceable I replaced the bolts with 4mm screws and nuts. From the factory the shell is crimped around the plug however it can easily be bent back without too much damage and replaced with a circlip. The end result is a fully rekeyable cutaway to demonstrate picking (regular and security pins) and shimming.

[Nox]

OK...So, what tools would I need to disassemble a master lock 15 layer by layer? Shims? I don't get much of the process that you gave me...Sorry.

And, I'm sorry about the double post earlier...I didn't even realize I did it-- I was on a pretty bad internet connection.

[nekret]

Sorry about my last post, I was up a little late.

Anyway to disassemble a laminated padlock, all you have to do is remove one of the bolt heads (one of the small lumps you see on the top or bottom) for each bolt. This can be done with a dremel grinding wheel or an angle grinder pretty easily if you put the shackle in a vise.

Once all of the bolt heads are removed from one side, use a nail punch to knock the bolts through far enough to grab them with some channel locks and pull them out one at a time. Be careful on the last bolt though, the body will fall apart without any support. You can now discard these or keep them for future use if you have a welder on hand.

Now its time for tearing down the actual lock. The shell is crimped down on two sides onto the plug however if you pick the lock and rotate the bottom of the keyway towards the crimps you can use it as leverage to bend the crimps back out. At this point the plug should be free to remove from the shell. Remove the plug being careful not to lose the top and bottom pins and springs. Put all the small parts away in a zip lock bag as you won't be needing them for a while.

Now you should plan the cuts in the body. You definitely want a window to view the cylinder so mark out a cut big enough to view most (but not all) of the bible. It's important that you don't remove too much from the body during this step or the cylinder will freely be able to rotate in the body causing an unlock without being picked or with a key. As for the other boundary of the cut you are pretty much free to pick a spot but to keep it snug you should try to keep the cut so it doesn't revel the bottom half of the cylinder. Once marked I cut 2-3 layers at a time with a dremel cutoff disk and filed the edges smooth.

This part is optional but handy to show people how padlock shims work. Find the three or so layers that have the spring loaded levers in them and mark out a cut that shows the lever and the shackle. Again cut with dremel and file smooth.

Now that the body cuts are done its time to start work on the shell. I chose to use the technique of filing down the side of the bible until small depressions could be seen where the chambers were located. Next I pushed the depressions up and away from the bible by using some dental tools that I inserted into the drilled holes in the bottom of the cylinder and finally into the chambers in the bible. Using this method yielded a fairly wide cut of the chambers but still keeps the pins in so it works. The other option is to measure the chambers distance from the edge of the bible and cut directly into the chambers.

This is where I am currently and I'm still debating about how to do the cuts in the plug and the shell.

If this is a used padlock you might also want to soak everything in a small bucket of mineral spirits for cleaning, just remember that you will have to lubricate the levers, cam and cylinder when done.

To reassemble the padlock use tightly fitting machine screws (4mm screws on the master 15 work great) and insert them into the holes where the bolts used to be and secure them with a nut on the other side. Cut them to length and file smooth. Hurray, your cutaway is complete!

So as for tools this is what I remember using:
dremel
lots of dremel cutoff wheels (~10)
dremel grinding wheel
channel lock
hammer
nail punch
vise
mill file (filing the body)
A small set of needle files (filing the cylinder)

[poky13]

You don't need to pull the pins out. All you got to do is take one plate off closes to the key hole after you grind the nobes off and the cylinder will come out

[JackNco]

OK there seems to be some confusion floating around this thread.

If you are planning on making a cutaway of any kind you need to strip the lock. in other words, cheap master padlocks are not a good starting point. i think "the_master" has a blog in which he does a pretty good job of a laminated master padlock but it really wouldn't be what i would call an easy starting point.

You need a lock you can take apart and remove the pins and springs from. Deadbolts, rim cylinders, euros in most cases, padlocks with removable cores in most cases.

Just have a look around at some pictures of cutaways. to get a good view at all you need to cut in to the chambers for the pin stacks, so removing the pins and springs is a must.

Hope this helps

John

[nekret]

You don't need to pull the pins out. All you got to do is take one plate off closes to the key hole after you grind the nobes off and the cylinder will come out

It's a lot easier (and nicer looking) to cut the plates when they are separated so removing all the pins is a necessity when making a cutaway of a laminated padlock.

JackNCo is very much right about the difficulty involved in cutting a laminated padlock, it takes much more time, effort, and planning compared to most rim cylinders. However, for me it wasn't just demonstrating the principles of picking but also how the lock is assembled internally including the levers and the cam that operates them. A lot of the people that I explain the problem of spring loaded levers to have no idea how sticking a piece of metal into a lock and twisting will open it. Having a visual aid definitely makes it easier.

[Nox]

Thanks everyone, you've been a great help.

[Gordon Airporte]

Here's The Master's blog with all the nice cutaways:
http://locksandsecurity.blogspot.com/20 ... taway.html
That's the No. 3, make sure you look at some of the fancier locks he's done.

If you want to cut away a brass lock, maybe something like a Master No. 575 would be good since you can drill the plug retaining pin out and remove the core.
If you don't want to drill out a pin, you could just get a lock with a core that's supposed to be removable, just remember that brass is easier to work with than steel.

[n00bking]

Go to my profile and look at all my posts, I made a cutaway of a Kwikset padlock. Was pretty easy too...but not that professional.