product called pickbuster

[JackNco]

personally i couldn't care less if it stops bumping. in fact its a good thing. but if it was to render my hobby useless within 18 months ide want a way to fix it.

as for locks with pins on top i would have though a thin brush liberally coated on it scrubbing the pins up and down while applying it might have some effect.

remember pickbuster them selves have something that does it so it must be possible.

I don't think anyone here is all that worried about bumping but it does make picking harder.

John

[globallockytoo]

How are you going to apply all these things you list to flush it out ? Ok euros are easy as the pins are sat the bottom but what about normal yales etc ? I cant see any criminal walking around with all these solvents just in case its been treated.
The whole point of bumping is its a quick and easy method of entry, which pickbuster prevents by creating time.Criminals hate to have to take too much time to get in in normal situations.
Like it or not its going to make an impact and the ICL is leading the way with it and its already being demonstrated to police forces and councils alike as a cheap and cost effective defense against bumping.

at US$~100 a can it seems a tad expensive...irrespective of the number of supposed applications. Are there any statistics to support the claims about preventing bumping?

I can definitely see a market for the product although I dont know many locksmiths or hardware stores that would hold that in their inventory at such a high price.

[zeke79]

I agree, it adds time and that is a good thing. Toomush hit the nail on the head there.

On the other hand, I have yet to see something that cannot be "degummed" with brake cleaner or electrrical contal cleaner. Some forms (exact) forms are sold as firearm degreasers and come with a thin applicator straw that really shoots out a powerful blast of the product.

I would love to try to test some locks with my theory, but for the cost of this stuff I am keeping my money in my pocket for the time being. If it hits the states I will do a test of my own at that point.

I will stand behind my biased point of view at this point. If anyone in the UK wants to work out a deal with me to ship a small amount for a decent price I'd be willing to put a test together for lp101.

[unjust]

SO... does it gum up the keys then too?

[WOT]

Pickbuster will apparently be making an appearance at an ICL event in the UK. apparently they IS a way to remove it that they will be making avalible but it will be a very controlled thing avalible to locksmiths only. well thats what ive herd anyway.

John

If the constituents are hazardous, they are required to make the MSDS available, showing the names and percentage. If the formulation isn't patented, they have zero say in preventing others from marketing the cleaner.

[panalman]

Pickbuster will apparently be making an appearance at an ICL event in the UK. apparently they IS a way to remove it that they will be making avalible but it will be a very controlled thing avalible to locksmiths only. well thats what ive herd anyway.

John

If the constituents are hazardous, they are required to make the MSDS available, showing the names and percentage. If the formulation isn't patented, they have zero say in preventing others from marketing the cleaner.

Its nothing more than a type of spray grease that will slow the bumping process down the sachets being sold on ebay give that away. To flush it use paint thinners as used in the motor trade. I will bring my cylinders to the Nottingham event for treatment but I will be bumping them once I get home and flushed them. And will post the results which I think will be positive. I wish I had thought of that product in the first place!!

[Shrub]

The very first thing i said it was when it first came out was slow grease and it seems its very simular,

Lets all not forget we advise against putting grease in locks and yet heres a product that has the potential to jam locks up in no time,

I would like to see longevity tests whereby the treated locks have been left for a period of time proportional to the life time to the lock as set by the manufacturer,

I would also like to know if this constitutes modifying the lock which as we know modifacation of the lock can remove any warentry, guarentee or even insurance rating/british standard,

Its a product that i see too many have rushed to support to fast but thats my opinion as is the rest of the post and of course i could be wrong,

[panalman]

The very first thing i said it was when it first came out was slow grease and it seems its very simular,

Lets all not forget we advise against putting grease in locks and yet heres a product that has the potential to jam locks up in no time,

I would like to see longevity tests whereby the treated locks have been left for a period of time proportional to the life time to the lock as set by the manufacturer,

I would also like to know if this constitutes modifying the lock which as we know modifacation of the lock can remove any warentry, guarentee or even insurance rating/british standard,

Its a product that i see too many have rushed to support to fast but thats my opinion as is the rest of the post and of course i could be wrong,

And yes I can now rest my case. The product has defentley been rushed on the pretense from the fear off bumpinig in Europe.

[pickbuster]

Hello everyone,

My name is Ron Heywood and I have just been appointed as marketing consultant for pickbuster.co.uk. I have been appointed by UAP Ltd who have been granted the exclusive distribution rights to the Pickbuster product.

I was glad to read this forum and see the many positive comments about the Pickbuster product. I hope I can answer any other questions you may have, and I very much look forward to engaging in the debate, and becoming an active member of your forums.

I was interested to see the comments regarding the long term affects on the lock and the issues of longevity. I would like to reassure you that Pickbuster has been approved by the Institute of Certified Locksmiths, and tested by ERA to over 50,000 cycles over a range of temperature extremes.

You may be interested to know that we have refined the application method of Pickbuster from the original sachets. We have developed a bottle with a pump action and a nozzle to make application easier.

We will also be launching a trade pack containing details of a registration scheme, guarantee, marketing material and enough Pickbuster solution to treat 80 locks.

Kind Regards
Ron Heywood

[Shrub]

Welcome to the site Ron its good to see you join,

Sorry but first things first, you will have to put your link to your www button and remove it from your sig, sorry,


On the product,

What are the details on testing with dirt and grime,
Im interested in if it attracts more muck than normal or if it gums the lock up, do you have longevity tests on that?

Its widley accepted that any form of oil or grease in a lock will attract more grime and can cause the lock to malfunction im worried that your product will cause this in the long term,


My second question is what is the trade off between your product and the insurance compaines?

Correct me if im wong but spraying somthign like that into a lock is modifying it (its claimed to modify the lock to stop bumping) and a modified lock can not be insurance approved unless its been tested in its modified state,

That sounds like all the locks this has been sprayed into no longer hold their insurance rating, do you plan to pay and have it tested in every lock on the market so that it is insurance approved?

[pickbuster]

Hi Shrub, I've removed the link from my sig, sorry about that.

Regarding your questions - we have tested the solution to 50,000 cycles of , but I will get back to you with the data on the longevity aspect.

It is important to UAP Ltd that the Pickbuster product provides the most effective security enhancements. For this reason we are setting up our registered installer scheme.

In addition our Approved installer and Seal of Approval schemes will grant the additional protection of a £2,000 guarantee and a £10,000 guarantee respectively in the event of non payment of a claim.

I will also keep you informed about any discussions with the Association of British Insurers regarding the insurance aspect of Pickbuster, which I hope you will find encouraging.

Hope this helps

Regards
Ron Heywood

[Shrub]

Thanks Ron,

[Wallaby]

I agree shrub,

Almore (pickbuster) have agreed exclusive distribution deals with just about everybody including the ICL, now UAP come along and claim the same.

They claim ICl endorsement. This is not true as ICL has recently started to doubt this product and there is such a simple solution to getting rid of it.

This guy Ron Heywood - New-Media Consultant from xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Bolton, LANCASHIRE, xxxxxxx works for UAP as a marketing consultant / contractor and UAP in turn buy the product from Almore.

there are too many questions now about their advertising campaign which is designed to scare people, for anybody to take it seriously ...

great idea to scare people and ride off the back of it but this is going way too far ...

[lockey1963]

Hi Ron

Just to clear up 1 incorrect comment in your initial statement , The product is not yet approved by the ICL And cannot be until tests are complete, which are still ongoing at present.

ICL have no doubt that the product does indeed resist bumping when applied to a cylinder, but raises other concerns that need fully testing prior to any approval or full endorsement by the ICL. The main concerns the ICL committee have and are testing are:

1) As shrub has asked, what effect will the product have on a cylinder in the door when exposed to the elements, especially in coastal areas, will it attract grit , sand and dust particles and gunge up the lock, as tests on use in a controled enviroment is different than when exposed to the elements.

2) As shrub has also rightly mentioned, will applying the PB affect the insurance rating of the lock, as altered to the tested approved standard.

3) In tests to date, we have found that a good quality cylinder with anti pick measures as requested by insurers that is difficult and time consuming for an inexperienced picker to pick open is affected by the application of PB , On gege and yale cylinders tested recently it rendered the anti pick measures all but useless, making raking an almost instant opening which is every bit as much of a security risk as is bumping.
What ICL are currently testing is can a reduced application offer bump resistence whilst maintaining a cylinders anti pick measures effectiveness.

So before ICL will consider granting its approval and full endorsement of the product, the committee require the conclusions of these tests and there own discussions with the insurers.
Before ICL will endorse this product it must first ensure it is as it claims prior to advising members to stock it.

Im sure that after full and proper testing ICL will publish its results and either endorse or not endorse the product, but its a little early to claim such endorsement at present, as untrue, supporting a product initially is a little different to endorsing and approving it, so ICL would be gratefull if you would refrain from such comments until they are true if this happens.

Although im all for increased security and correcting weaknesses, i feel the advert is no more than scaremongering and will be poorly recieved due to this, but thats opinion only, causing panic isnt exactly responsible, and until the products own potential weaknesses and faults are fully tested also a little early to claiming its the solution, it may be , but until tested its not.

[UWSDWF]

listing user personal info is in poor taste there Wallaby and that reply is in no manner contributive to the discussion