product called pickbuster

[UAPLTD]

All of my answers are factual and provable to the best of my knowledge. As regrads to flushing Pickbuster, the only solution we have ever been advised about is WD40, and hence why we tested it. The expert doing the test is a high profile locksmith. I copy the WD40 part of the test below. If there are other fluids then we would test every single one independently.

We tried to flush out each cylinder with WD40. With euros and ovals, we were eventually successful in flushing out the cylinder so that it could be bumped again.
However this took between 20 and 30 applications of WD40, interspersed with repeated attempts at bumping, over approximately 15 minutes, and used on average a 400 mm can of WD40 per lock. (approximately ¾ pint)

With Rim cylinders and screw in cylinders, WD40 was not effective at all as it would not go up into the chambers.

We then stripped down the SKS cylinder which bumped, applied PickbusterTM from the sachet and rebuilt the cylinder, in the manner of a cylinder treated during manufacture. When the cylinder was reassembled, it would not bump open, and displayed the same resistance to flushing as the retrospectively treated samples.

[Schuyler]

Hi, UA, glad you came to the forum,

Big question for me is - will the substance speed up the locks collection of dirt and debris, shortening the lifespan of a normal cylinder? / have you given any thought to offering a replacement plan in the event this does happen?

I know it hasn't been on the market long enough to see real world long-term effects, but if you've had opportunity to lab test that, would you be willing to go into some of the details and results?

[Jaakko]

How about acetone?

[Shrub]

Right thats a start, are you willing to show the test litriture of the other tests you have done,

The sks lock isnt one of the best quality on the market and it dosnt say how the lock was attempted to be flushed out, that could have meant a liberal dose to it or a quick squirt,

The main questions are the dirt and grime aspects but you say youve done no testing on that, i have to ask why?

Do you have any bumping tests? what were the conditions and what technique was used? how many times was anew bumpkey used and how many bumps were attempted?

Are you planning on doing tests with the cleaners found under your kitchen sink? they are the ones most obtainable and then go from there,

Do you plan on addressing the problem of it basically rendering securty pins useless within locks?

Are you planning on getting insurance approval and if so on what locks?

Do you still not agree that your advertiseing campain may be a bit preditory on the vunrable?

Does the substanc break down with time and jam the lock up itself regardless of dirt attracted or does it remain stable and fluid for ever?

Just a few questions ive summised from the thread but all as important as each other,
We arent against the idea but it just seems like its been rushed to market without adequate testing or consideration to the other aspects as mentioned above, it seems to have been brought out on the back of the increased bumping hype sweeping the world purely to make you a fast buck,

[UAPLTD]

I will attempt to answer each questioner in turn.

First Schuyler......I am pleased you are happy for me to be here.....

Cyliners tested in our Salt spray chambers filled with Pickbuster seem to be OK after 1000 hours. This is generally thought to be around 10 years. However this is not a perfect test as Salt Spray is usually used to attack metals corrosion-wise. If there is any other way of accelerating testing this aspect then please advise and we will get it tested via Warrington Research Centre.

The issue of cylinder guarantees is a good one. We guarantee our own cylinders for 2 years. Our industry norm is just 1 year. Certainly we would guaratee cylinders filled at point of manufacture for the same time.

What is interesting is that prior to our involvement Pickbuster was sold, and still is by Almore, as a Locksmiths Lubricant..

[UAPLTD]

Jaakko - Acetone. To be honest I don't know. But I will be sure to get it tested. I have already e mailed Almore to see if they have tested Acetone.

I will report back within 5 days

[UAPLTD]

Shrub. Yes I am willing to show all of our tests. I would also be happy to fund anyone from this forum conducting tests independently. If there is anyone who is able to do this for us then I would be happy to hear from you and to start the test immediately.

[UAPLTD]

Shrub. The SKH lock was not of our choosing but the choosing of the examiner. I attach below the test report. I have removed the details of the examiner as he wishes to remain anonymous and we will respect that....

Method:-

We tested 8 different cylinders. 5 separate attempts were made on each cylinder and each cylinder bumped open eventually in different times, as noted on the results table, followed by treatment with PickbusterTM according to the manufacturer’s instructions.

Results:-

PickbusterTM was applied to each cylinder following successful bumping. The cylinders were left for a minimum of 20 minutes. We spent a maximum of 5 minutes trying to bump each cylinder and were unable to bump any of them within that time.

We tried to flush out each cylinder with WD40. With euros and ovals, we were eventually successful in flushing out the cylinder so that it could be bumped again.
However this took between 20 and 30 applications of WD40, interspersed with repeated attempts at bumping, over approximately 15 minutes, and used on average a 400 mm can of WD40 per lock. (approximately ¾ pint)

With Rim cylinders and screw in cylinders, WD40 was not effective at all as it would not go up into the chambers.

We then stripped down the SKS cylinder which bumped, applied PickbusterTM from the sachet and rebuilt the cylinder, in the manner of a cylinder treated during manufacture. When the cylinder was reassembled, it would not bump open, and displayed the same resistance to flushing as the retrospectively treated samples.

Untreated lock cylinder performance table:-

Note that no cylinder resisted for more than 55 seconds, with 25 seconds being the average time taken to succumb, and many under 10 seconds.



Make of attempt Number of 'bumps' Opening time pickbuster application comments
lock no: before lock opened time in seconds time before test start

UNION Oval 5 pin 1 4 20 20 minutes withdraw and bump method
with thumbturn 2 1 2
3 2 3
4 6 30
5 8 32

UNION Oval 6 pin 1 8 34 25 minutes withdraw and bump method
key - key 2 1 2
3 3 4
4 11 40
5 7 31

YALE euro 6 pin 1 29 40 30 minutes Rap method used
key - key 2 16 19
3 21 22
4 9 8
5 36 55

BASI euro 5 pin 1 1 2 35 minutes withdraw and bump method
key - key 2 1 2
3 5 15
4 1 2
5 2 4

GEGE 6 pin euro 1 15 31 40 minutes withdraw and bump method
key - key 2 23 40
3 27 48
4 32 55
5 23 41

Assec 5 pin 1 6 22 45 minutes withdraw and bump method
euro 2 5 18
3 11 32
4 3 10
5 7 25

Viro scew in 1 3 6 50 minutes withdraw and bump method
cylinder 5 pin 2 1 3
3 4 10
4 11 30
5 19 44

SKS own brand 1 9 22 55 minutes withdraw and bump method
5 pin cylinder 2 6 15
3 3 9
4 2 4
5 4 10

[UAPLTD]

Shrub. UAP are not a tecnhical company. We are a distributor. We do have however in house testing and we do a lot of work with various test houses, Warrington and Akzo to name 2.

It is a fact that the vast majority of cylinders used in PVCu doors, patios etc are basic 5 pin, no anti pick or anti drill, and have been for many years.

The closest we can get, as far as I am aware, in a lab for dirt and particulants, is to use salt spray. We have tested in our own lab to 1000 hours. As I said to a previous reply, if there is a better accelerated test then I would like to know.

[UAPLTD]

Shrub - Advertising.

This is the delicate issue. What do we do:- do nothing and let homes be burgled, especially the vulnerable or offer a solution. Remember it was not UAP who created the buzz but a German manufacturer offering an anti bump cylinder.

Also remember that we are offering to the home owner a guarantee, that if their locks get bumped within 2 years, and if their insurance company refuse to pay out, then the householder can claim up to £2,500 against UAP for their loss.

[UAPLTD]

Shrub - Insurance Approval. We are currently talking to the ABI.

In the meantime our own consumer guarantee does give the consumer peace of mind.

As for making a fast buck. Almore have been testing and developing Pickbuster for over 12 months.

Does the material break down? The evidence says no. I cannot reveal how I know it does not break down due to a confidentiality agreement but I have seen data confirming that it remains stable in different but even more agressive market conditions.

[Shrub]

I make 1000 hours = 41 days not 10 years,

I think rather than do nothing anything would be better to test the dirt aspect, can i suggest somthing like a ctlinder left on the side of a motorway for a week would put a few years of grime into the lock but as you im not a testing facility and im sure there are better places than here to ask for tests,

As far as you being just a distrubitor then how come your fileding these questions? its somthign you should put to the company,

If this is a lubricant elsewhere then al you have done is rebadge it and its no special substance, is this a fair way of lookign at it?

[UAPLTD]

Shrub......salt spray testing is an accelerated test, and is used to test the resistance of all types of products, paints, metals etc. The usual rule of thumb is 100 hours is equivalent to 1 years UK climate conditions.

[UAPLTD]

Shrub. I have searched for all types of tests for this on the BSi web site which holds all the specifications for tests and testing and there is none to cover this. Salt spray is the closest I have found.

As for Pickbuster being not special it is protected by a patent which it achieved becuase of its 'sepcial qualities'.

[UAPLTD]

I apologise for my spelling mistakes today. I think I have answered all the questions so far, so its back to laying a laminated floor in my daughters room. If any of you have any advice on how to fit this bloody stuff I would be very grateful