Yet another Lock Concept - Tubular / Pin Tumbler Hybrid

[Dragunov-21]

In the interests of designing a lock that is more secure than a basic tumbler or tubular lock, but far cheaper than an Abloy or similar, as well as well as just cuz I could , I came up with this...



What do we think?

(And before anyone says it, yes it would be warded, and yes it would have pins.)

[blake1803]

Someone posted a picture of a key fairly recently that operated a lock very similar to that... let me see if I can dig it up in search

[Schuyler]

There's actually a thread with this very locking concept tossed about, but your model is very nice. If I get a chance I'll try to track it down for you. I can't, for my life, remember what the thread was, so it'll take a while to search it out, but would be worth re-visiting.

I mean, I think it could work really well. I like the concept.

[blake1803]

Here's the thread!

Was easy for me to find it because I remembered that I had posted in it, and I don't have too many posts... so I just went through my own posting history

[Dragunov-21]

Figures, think of an original idea and someone will've already written a book about it lol...

Unfortunately the pics on the other thread are no longer there, so I don't quite know if the key would look the same, for this particular design it'd basically be a larger-than-average tubular key with a standard key "blade" sticking out the middle.

And thanks Schuyler, it took me ages to get my head around CAD again

The one thing I really like about it is that it would be cheap and easy to make and construct, and at higher tolerances the pin position could be manipulated to hinder picking even further by causing a tumbler pin to bind, then a tubular pin, then a tumbler pin again etc etc, which would be the ultimate to pick. Combine that with the option of top AND bottom pin columns, plus of course security pins, and you've got a secure, cost effective lock, with the only downside being the stupid-looking chunky key.

I'd make a working model if I knew how to lathe metal and had access to some pins and springs, it'd be pretty easy, and the only special equipment you'd need (for an unwarded lock) would be the lathe and a drill press...

Don't suppose anyone has the necessary machinery, knowledge and inclination to make a prototype model?

[n2oah]

I came into this thread ready to insult someone, but it actually seems like a reasonable idea. Good going.

[mcm757207]

Well I dunno about cost-effective... aren't abloys already pretty darned cheap to make?

[Dragunov-21]

I honestly have no idea whatsoever, but I *do* know they're hella expensive to purchase, at least wherever I've seen them...

At any rate, I like the idea that it's a lock that anyone with some basic machining skills can make, whereas I imagine making an Abloy-type lock or the discs for it would require specific equipment, plus you need a special machine to cut the keys.

[mcm757207]

Just to play devil's advocate, I disagree that stamping out basic disks with notches in them to slap in a housing with a sidebar takes as much 'machining skill' as a tubular mechanism and a pin tumbler mechanism put into one. Obviously that statement is very simplified, but I don't think anyone would argue that the basic abloy classic design is more complicated than this.

[Dragunov-21]

It's not the lack machining skill that stops someone like me from making Abloy disks, it's that making them outside of a mass-production setting would (I imagine, I could be wrong) be very difficult. With this design, all you need are:

Two solid steel/brass "rods" for the lock housing,
a circlip or similar,
and pins/springs.

The two parts of the lock housing are made with a lathe and drill press, whereas you need a (please don't hit me if I'm showing my ignorance of mechanical processes) stamping machine for disks, plus I imagine making the cam and hull would be more difficult as well...

Hope I'm not talking through my @ss too much

[mh]

It's not the lack machining skill that stops someone like me from making Abloy disks, it's that making them outside of a mass-production setting would (I imagine, I could be wrong) be very difficult.

You would needle files for the first prototypes and a milling machine (probably a CNC one) for the first small series.

[Afisch]

I belive i have seen a similar looking concept with a "+" shaped keyway and 4 sets of pins designed for safes at some point. This looks like an interesting concept and security/price seems to be what people go for, mainly price.

[UWSDWF]

Who be talkin about the WCL (Wicked Cool Lock)??????



I believe I had a copyrighted by me or I'll kill you clause

[raimundo]

the straight pin tumbler lock inside the tubular pin tumbler lock has been in use on rentalockers in bus stations for a long time. its a good lock and we should have a thread on it, you have probably seen the keys with a plastic colored handle riveted on.
We ought to have a thread on it, but I haven't seen one, does anyone know the name of the company that makes those locks, or the proper term to call it or google it? perhaps these locks even get on ebay sometime.
what would a pick look like, a tubular pick with a hole through it and long picks to work throught that hole?
Does anyones 'search fu' handle this problem of having only a discription and knowing that the thing exists, and finding the right search words to look it up. my guesses are 'rental lockers' and possibly 'greenleaf' the name of a company who makes things like this for vending machines.

[UWSDWF]

Here you go rai

Here's the thread!