Bump resistant Master video

[Eyes_Only]

Anyone else seen this video on you tube about the new bump resistant master locks? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUJWc7rIj8I&NR=1

[bluestar]

Thanks for the info

This concept is similar to the concept used in the CES VA5 and the GEGE pExtra (I think both were in Han's "Bumping Revisited" presentation at WTH '05). CES used shorter drill-holes in the plug, GEGE used the same concept as Master shows in this video (GEGE called it "rapid pin").

[Afisch]

Does anyone know if master intending to radomise which hole this pin is in? If they intend to always use the 5th hole for example would it not be a case of simply making a 99995 key which will open the lock as before by giving the pin enough energy to negate this technology. It seems that they need to use a short key pin in the 5th hole for thier design to be most effective.

[Eyes_Only]

I don't think it'll be totally in a random position. Last month in TNL magazine there was an article about this that said this new pin will only be in a chamber that uses 0,1 and 2 depth bottom pins in a Master and a 1,2 or 3 bottom pin depth for an American lock. If used with a bottom pin thats any longer and I'm sure the lock can be bumped.

This will undoubtedly reduce the number of possible pinning combination but guess its better than nothing.

[bluestar]

I think say the position of the "special pin" depends on the machining method they use - whether the drill for the wider diameter is movable or fixed. But in one video from master the pin sat on position 2, so i think it could be random.

Thing is, how much it really helps against bumping? If it's only used for 0,1,2-depths, you could make three bump keys for every position...

[n2oah]

I would definitely not expect master to put it in a random position. But that's just me.

[Eyes_Only]

I'm just more curious about how this will affect picking attempts.

[greyman]

It's a cute video - thanks to Eyes_Only for posting the link. I particularly liked the lame pun "the bump stops here". It's a simple idea and may work OK for conventional bump keys, but I don't think it would be hard to pick. Certainly it will be a cinch to detect since you'll have a loose bottom pin. I suppose the driver spring on the bump-stop pin must not be too hard or it would cause a lot of wear on the key.

[lunchb0x]

wouldnt it be easier too pick becasue the bump stop pin is a smaller diameter, it would always bind last unless the larger diameter part of the pin sits below the shear line

[bluestar]

I think this particular pin would be easier to pick than the others, because you can identify it fast and if you know which one it is, you just have to tap on it - the pins are "almost set".

[Eyes_Only]

I think I'll stop by Home Depot after I get my first pay check and see if they have it in stock yet.

[Afisch]

0,1 and 2 depth bottom pins in a Master and a 1,2 or 3 bottom pin depth for an American lock. If used with a bottom pin thats any longer and I'm sure the lock can be bumped.

Thanks for conferming that, as such you would then only need a key which is cut to 99994 if they only have it in one position, or else 5 bump keys would do it. I suppose that is where the "4x more bump resistant" comes from. None the less it seems a deacant step away from having this as an easily available method to most people. Managed to interest me in lock bumping... It'l be interesting to see anyones results bumping these.

[MacGyver101]

. . . only be in a chamber that uses 0,1 and 2 depth bottom pins in a Master and a 1,2 or 3 bottom pin depth for an American lock.

The article was almost right: the new "BumpStop" top pins are restricted to chambers with 0, 1 and 2 depth bottom pins in Master padlock and KIK cylinders -- and chambers with with a 1, 2 or 3 depth bottom pin in Master doorlock and American padlock cylinders.

From the information I've seen, it sounds like Master is planning on placing the pins randomly in their cylinders, to match the particular key cut. In their latest tech manual (available off their public website) they don't expressly confirm this, but do note that you have to move the BumpStop pins when rekeying.

[Eyes_Only]

Then I suppose to bump a random Master Lock with the Bump Stop driver you would have to have with you a pretty decent sized selection of bump keys with a 4 cut or something with each key having such cut in a different location to try out.

But I think Master said the tapered end of the Bump Stop driver is designed to snag really well in the plug when trying to bump it to impede such attemps.

[Afisch]

What keyway are these new masterlocks using, any idea? Would help the bumpproofing if they used a fairly restricted keyblank, but it seems unlikely that they would.