product called pickbuster

[UAPLTD]

Insurance re: modified locks.
I have had the following position confirmed below regarding modifying locks and the issue of insurance. I have not edited this message;

Insurance companies woud only pay if there
was evidence of forcible or violent entry.

The idea of modifying a lock invalidating the policy does not apply
to home insurance. It is true that in motor insurance if you modify a
vehicle you must notify the insurance company, but locks do not have
this condition attached. The only question on British insurance
policies is the question "Are all external doors fitted with five
lever mortice deadlocks". There is no question regarding the standard
or rating of these locks.

We are not aware of any cases where a lock has been picked or bumped
and it has then been succesfully argued that this constitutes forcible
or violent entry. The insurance industry are aware of lock bumping but
it appears to be that it can't or has never been proved.

[Mark A]

UAPLtd,
Both the MLA/ABI and SBD guidelines for domestic security do specify standards(Both European and British) for locks to be fitted.

Who issued this statement to you?

Mark

[UAPLTD]

CII with confirmation from BIBA

Interestingly enough, I just checked the insurance policies on my own properties. None mention any standard.

[Mark A]

Insurance companies vary on what they require, but it is a very common job for locksmiths to have to upgrade locks to insurance requirements, particularly on newly taken out policies.

Different standards are required, depending on the construction and type of doors/windows.(Surely you know this, as your cylinders are graded to EN 1303 to meet SBD requirements).

Mark

[UAPLTD]

Mark A.

The only people who really demand EN1303:2005 or SBD cylinders are composite door companies who sell to the Social Housing market. Those in the Domestic market (the biggest market), fit whatever they can at the lowest cost they can.

There are occassional exceptions both ways to this rule, but generally it is correct.

You would be surprised how many 5 pin no-security cylinders are bought and fitted in new installations. By no-security I mean no anti-drill, no anti-pick, no anti-snap and no anti-bump.

We at UAP are a oddity in that we only offer EN1303 for our stocked cylinders. On the own brand cylinders we import the vast majority are 5 pin no-security.

This same concept of low price permeates all the way through all the hardware from window handles and locks to letterplates etc. The market is extremely price sensitive and price drives most of the fabricator businesses.

[Mark A]

UAPLtd,
Firstly, I would not be surprised in any way at the general standard of low security cylinders fitted by some UPVC installers, as Locksmiths we are at the sharp end and see it first hand.

What has and still does surprise me is the general lack of product/security knowledge that some UPVC fitters/Companies have, and rely heavily on suppliers/distributers to supply them with the correct/appropiate hardware.

I could also list out many UPVC suppliers that sell EN 1303 cylinders, in fact I would say the majority do.

The NHBC which offer 10yr Insurance policies for new build properties also specify standards for locks, as do the ABI,SBD and many insurance companies will automatically place endorsements on a policy if within certain Postcode areas, these are insisted on when policies are renewed and the householders are given 30 days to comply or cover is stopped.

I mean no disrespect to UPVC Companies or the fitters, and my comments are based on experience of working for and answering the numerous calls I get from local companies asking for advice on MPLs/cylinders and other UPVC locking systems.

Mark

[UAPLTD]

Mark A

The only area of disagreement between us is the number of companies that use an EN1303 cylinder.

It is my view based upon 12 years of supplying cylinders in to the market, the past 5 years of which at the rate of 30,000 units a month, that the vast majority of cylinders are not EN1303 or anything close to that standard.

The main companies that do specify EN1303 are those composite door companies who supply to Social Housing projects. There are a few exceptions to this general rule, but from my experience very few.

I do agree with you wholehearteedly that companies should fit better locks and hardware as standard, and I have been beating that drum for years. However increased price is always the argument against.

[globallockytoo]

What we in the industry would prefer and what the market will bear are usually two completely different items.

This is the fundamental problem with manufacturers and distributors. They generally dont consult the market. There are a few companies that consult marketing professionals to help determine what the market wants but the decision to come into public forums like this, is a bold decision in my opinion.

What Mark, perhaps is saying, is that in his experience, reality paints a different picture from your statistics UAPLTD.

That you move 30,000 units per month is wonderful for you, but where are those units going? Surely some of them are moving Mark's direction.

In 5 years @ 30,000 per month you have moved 18 million cylinders....combined with all the other companies cylinders...there must be more doors than people in UK.

The figures couldnt be true....sorry.

[UAPLTD]

In the past 5 years we have imported around 1.8 million cylinders (30k a month over 5 years is 1.8million, not 18 million). There are approximately 1 million PVCu doors produced a year in the UK plus wooden, aluminium etc. We would conservatively guess around 2 million doors a year, under 10% of the housing stock. Then there is the commercial market where an extra 500,000 units would go.

If we said 70% of our cylinders stay in the UK and the rest are exported to Eire etc, then that would not be unreasonable.

I checked our most recent orders and over the past 4 weeks some 60% of the own label cylinder orders are basic and 40% are security. Part of this is our fairly new Anti Snap cylinders which are now a specification requirement in Social Housing.

So my figures are correct and once again provable. I have told this forum before that we will only provide figures that are true, accurate and provable.

The end conclusion is that market should have security cylinders, but these are not bought by many due to a combination of factors and reasons, price being the most potent.

UAP's view is that everyone should buy security cylinders, Anti Drill as a minimum, Anti Drill with Anti Snap would be preferable, and Anti Drill with Anti snap and Anti bump would be ideal backed up by door security chains. But no matter what we want, the market will buy what the market will buy.

[globallockytoo]

Did i forget the decimal point....oops....no edit button! sorry.

[Karl J]

What if someone were to add heat via a small pen torch or the like. Heat will usually change the chemical balance of most manufactured oils, resins etc. What about acetone? or any other acid-based fluid rather than a lubricant/moisture displacer like WD-40.
I've never picked a lock in my life so what the F do I know.

[UAPLTD]

Samples Requested

I am pleased to announce that our new pump heads and injector pins have arrived, so all samples I have agreed to send will go out on Tuesday.

New British Standards

I can say that there are new standards being introduced shortly covering Bumping of Cylinders that can include Pickbuster modified cylinders. The exact details of the test have not been announced but I will keep you informed.

[Mark A]

Wondered when that would happen.
Will the new standards be upgrades to existing standards i.e. PAS24 or EN1303?
Or are they to be new,seperate standards?

Mark

[UAPLTD]

Mark A

It will be an upgrade to PAS 24.

The only things we do not know are:

a. When it come in to effect and
b. What the exact test will be

As soon as I know I will let you know.

Regards

[Mark A]

Thanks for that UAPLtd.
Be interesting to see what form of testing they will use and also the wording they will have to describe Pickbuster.

Mark