To answer zeke79

[Karl J]

Why don't you guys let people reply? There's a healthy debate going on and you guys lock it?! I think I'll move on.


Thanx for the reply.

I'm not the one who wants to know or get access to the advanced section of this website. My original post addressed new members that couldn't get answers to their how-to questions. I am a new member and I haven't even picked a single lock yet so I'm not going to jump from a Master padlock to a Medeco etc. I just feel that when someone asks a question they are usually "out of their league" so the "experienced" people here could humour them by answering them instead of publicly humiliating them by making them feel that they are not part of this special advanced group...... but whatever, I'm not the one asking the questions. Websites and forums grow by people engaging in converstations regarding particular subjects, in this case, locks and lock picking. If questions can't/won't be answered how can this site grow? once someone is cut off like in many cases here and told, "go to the other website" then ok, sooner or later people will move on and eventually this and any other website that moderates certain questions will just be a thought.
That's just my opinion.
Anyway, goin to Niagara Falls for the weekend to play some Baccarat so take care.
Karl.

[Eyes_Only]

Well it is true that some of us here get a bit moody if questions on certain things are asked but what pisses off people here the most is when someone repeatedly reposts subjects on the same topic that was previously locked twice on the same section.

[zeke79]

IT was my impression that you were questioning why we have an advanced section, etc. If you have a specific question then please feel free to ask it and I will gladly help and not give you the "search" answer.

Leaving thread unlocked to await a response.

[Eyes_Only]

I think you posted that in the wrong thread.

[zeke79]

It seemed to me that this was just a thread to question the site rules with all of the points being made about information being available elsewhere.

As ANYONE here will attest to, I will help ANYONE as much as I can. I will not spoon feed you but rarely do I post "please do a search". I will help you all the same Karl if you simply ask me what it is you want to know.

I am however not up for a debate on the site rules. The fact of the matter is, I cannot do a thing about the site rules anyway. The rules are made up by an administrator who is rarely if ever here, Mr. Picks. Any changes to rules or the site must go through him. So as you have probably figured out, I am just one of his lackeys here to do the dirty work and await his commands .

The best way I can see if you want to change this site is to band members together and ALL of you pm Mr.Picks with your suggestions. Turn it into a type of petition because as I stated there is really nothing I can do.

[MacGyver101]

...people here could humour them by answering them instead of publicly humiliating them by making them feel that they are not part of this special advanced group...... but whatever, I'm not the one asking the questions.

You have been asking questions... and I've taken the opportunity, on several occasions, to reply to your questions with honest and respectful (and, hopefully, helpful, in the case of your mail-order import question) answers.

There's a healthy debate going on and you guys lock it?!

There are many rooftops on the Internet onto which you can climb and shout whatever you'd like; they aren't for me, but I'm fine with the fact that those places exist. Most of us here have decided that we'd like to have a few of our discussions inside, rather than having them all on the front porch... and that's our choice. "Free speech" has to include the freedom to choose where you say things, and to whom. Some of my views do differ from what you've observed on YouTube from "the people from Defcon"... but I'm not censoring anyone other than myself, and I'm puzzled as to why that clearly upsets you so much?

Anyhow, I hope you had fun at spam Naigara...

[plumber carl]

could not agree more with karl j . the site is incredibly restrictive and although informative, it really needs to move its goal post to stop it being pushed in to second or third place.As on the net more and more new sites arrive. i agree also its to temperamental to what could be classed as restrictive questions,and although the majority of people will answer politely there are others who appear strange with chips on there shoulders. there's no excuse for rudeness check out some of the replies to new members there shameful to any site. what ever you run be it a site or any establishment the management should not turn a blind eye to rudness

[globallockytoo]

I'm sorry, but I disagree with some of your stances here. The point about the advanced forum is not to be restrictive but more to encourage long term members and posters to make an active positive contribution to the site before being considered sufficiently knowledgeable to participate and contribute to what the peers in here consider more advanced topics.

Rather than bog down the section with non-advanced type contributions, the advanced section, perhaps allows qualified (or members who have displayed sufficient knowledge and participation in the general forums) members to discuss topics that might be considered more technical in nature.

I am not part of that group, yet. But I understand their reasons. Yes I was previously disillusioned by their "chip on shoulder" attitude until I began to understand their motivations.

Some discussions on this site can be of a more hard core technical nature that the more advanced members might understand, more quickly than others. I dont believe that it is the intention to stifle learning, but more to allow the group to feel that the prospective member will make a worthwile contribution while at the same time receiving worthwile information.

The nature of some of the topics there, may be of sufficient standard that could be considered too sensitive and/or possibly be used innappropriately by some....henced the reason for restricting the forum and making it difficult to get into.

[freakparade3]

I agree with the way this site keeps information restricted, in fact I'd prefer more of the info here to be moved into the advanced area. I recently checked out the other site whose name has come up recently. I totally disagree with the information there being open to everyone, but I don't go there just to post my feelings and waste there time either. If you prefer the "other" site feel free to go there. I'll stay here, it's home.

[digital_blue]

For what it's worth, I think zeke has been more than patient here. A simple read through the rules would have firstly answered the original question, AND made it clear that if you (the OP) had a question like this it should have been directed to an admin, not posted.

This forum is here for the discussion of the hobby of lock picking.

I'll leave this open for the time being because zeke opted to allow the OP to come back and respond. But this now makes 3 totally unnecessary threads.

Regards,

db

[RangerF150]

This site works fine for those that have a genuine interest in lockpicking, it seems to be problematic for others!

[illusion]

I really don't see what the problem is.

If somebody is rude then ignore them and move on with life - it's just as applicable on this forum as it is in the real world...

Take care of yourselves - the admin have enough to deal with without having to shelter people who ask silly questions and then seem dumb-struck when they get an inevitably silly answer.

At the end of the day none of this is real and when I turn off the monitor I get back to real life and whatever has happened on a forum is irrelevant.

Take it easy - Hope you enjoy your weekend trip.

[simon_G]

*shrugs* if im honest, i doubt most of the new people will understand most of what goes on in the advanced section anyways.. (i dont know, im just guessing here ) so there is little or no point in changing it now its set up like that.

i mean yeah, personally id like to give the theory a go over, but i dont know if id understand any of it or not.. and i certainly wouldent have the skill to pull any of it off.

another thing i think, and you may or may not disagree with me, is that as a beginner, im hoping to get good enough so that the advanced section holds relevance.. hopefully, when im advanced enough to apply, the mods will accept me, and ill get access to a huge store of information.

because, and lets face it we all do, im curious about that information now, when i eventually get to see it, its gonna be a real sweet accomplishment.

you wouldent get that sense of achievement, or the pride from knowing that all the mods think your ready for it, if you could just wander in at any time. so i think its a big confidence boost as well. i mean, there has to be a drive to do something you cant do at the time, to get that sense after youve achieved it.

i can appreciate that some of the members will join when they are already good enough, but if youve got the that stage, chances are you have ways of getting that information yourself.

i mean, if you dident learn the theory here to get where you are, just go to the place you -did- learn it from.

so i can see your point when your calling for the freedom of that information, but personally, i like it as is..

though i confess the fact that i cant see that info makes me want to see it all the more getting into that section will probably be one of the defining moments of the hobby for me.. this is assuming i ever get good enough

oh, im not trying to have a go or anything, i just thought id share my opinion

- Simon

[Jaakko]

In a sense the advanced area promotes users to behave and respect the sites rules. I mean, if you are just a dick and wank off at each other, you are neither mature or ethical enough.

[nothumbs]

My two cents, and I think I've said this before, an insult is like a drink, it only affects you if you accept it.

I've seen rudeness from new posters who don't bother to read the rules, who don't take the time to do a search or two (even though the search function is often semi-useless).

I've seen rudeness from longer-term members who treat others with less than the respect they themselves expect.

I've seen rudeness from admins of this site who's enforcement of the rules and ethics of this site occasionally appear arbitrary.

All this pretty much mirrors my experience of the real world. After lurking for awhile to read and learn, both about lockpicking (a hobby for me) and the culture of this site, I started posting. I've on occasion experienced what I would consider rudeness, but I've a thick skin and my interest and appreciation for what I gain by using this site far outweighs the occasional slight.

Given what I've seen on some of the other sites, this site is an example of the value of rules and enforcement of same. I've no interest in learning how to trash someones computer (already have far too many skills in that area), how to steal other folks intellectual property (software or books), or other immature behavior.

I am interested in learning how to further my skills in this chosen hobby of mine. Eventually I'll apply to the advanced area as I have a love of learning that at least in this case will likely always surpass my skill level. With luck, I'll get in. In the interim, I'll strive to participate and add value. I hope everyone else does the same.