RKS: Robotic Key System Q&A with John Loughlin of SCI

[Raccoon]

My recent thoughts and concerns are with the torque required to rotate the dial and the "opening rod" (for lack of a better word).

Consider a lock that has been in use for 50 years, exposed to elements and time. How much torque will the dialer be able to provide, and how much force will the interface of the lock be able to take before it begins to slip or strip (like a stuck screw).

Also, when considering an exposed interface, how secure or functional would it be if attacked by the head of a hammer or a hammer and screw driver? What interface design would be able to take significant exterior damage and still be operational?

Also, how would the build-up of grit and grime on the face of the lock affect its functionality?

[Raccoon]

The Scrambling Spring method. I'm wondering if the use of a scramble spring can leave any computational vulnerabilities by leaving the discs in a predictable state. If the spring snaps the discs when the dialer or bolt is released, at a known approximate force, could that leave the combination vulnerable to software dialing and guess-work?

[Iceberg_Slim]

but only the control unit actually knows AND CAN input the combination.

[Raccoon]

Please re-read. I asked if a lock could be picked, and you answered that only the key can open a lock.

[johnloughlin]

My recent thoughts and concerns are with the torque required to rotate the dial and the "opening rod" (for lack of a better word).

Extensive environmental testing would need to be completed prior to going into production.

The torque currently required to turn the shaft of a 6 disc cylinder is quite low, ~0.5 IN-OZ. One reason for the low torque is that the bearing contact areas of the components are small which also helps to minimize possible seizing.

An O-Ring could be used between the cylinder's drive shaft and the body to keep out dirt and dust.

A violent attack to the face of the lock could surely damage the mechanism, the cylinder should be designed to "fail safe".

[johnloughlin]

Approximately how long does it take for the robotic dialer to dial the combination and open the lock?

about 3 seconds

With how many discs?

3 seconds is for a 6 disc cylinder and a robotic dialer with an off-the-shelf stepper motor. With a speed controlled servo motor it could be faster. The speed of the stepper is difficult to modulate. Currently, the stepper changes direction very quickly, if we were to drive the exisiting motor faster the discs would over shoot their alignment position due to inertia.

[mh]

A violent attack to the face of the lock could surely damage the mechanism, the cylinder should be designed to "fail safe".

I know the term "fail safe" from electric door locks, where "safe" means open during power outage, a "fail secure" lock would be closed.

I wonder if that's the same logic that you are referring to; it wouldn't make much sense to me to design a lock so that it opens on every possible mechanical attack.
I'd think the goal would be to make it "fail secure", unless it's really just a more complex replacement for a plastic container seal.

Cheers,
mh

[TOWCH]

Perhaps a centrifugal trigger to protect against autodialing?

[Gordon Airporte]

Perhaps a centrifugal trigger to protect against autodialing?

The key is and auto dialer... so the defense against brute forcing with an autodialer has to be the huge number of combos, right?

[TOWCH]

Set the spring tension and weight to just under the speed of the key dialer, and it will set a consistent time resistence against brute force attacks, other controls on possible dialing speed being the durrability of the wheel flys, and the upper limit before wheel momentum starts to exceed spindle friction.

You could even adjust these on a lock by lock basis to further complicate the bitting to include dialing speed.

[johnloughlin]

A violent attack to the face of the lock could surely damage the mechanism, the cylinder should be designed to "fail safe".

I know the term "fail safe" from electric door locks, where "safe" means open during power outage, a "fail secure" lock would be closed.

I wonder if that's the same logic that you are referring to; it wouldn't make much sense to me to design a lock so that it opens on every possible mechanical attack.
I'd think the goal would be to make it "fail secure", unless it's really just a more complex replacement for a plastic container seal.

Cheers,
mh

Thank you MH, "fail secure" is a much, much better choice of words

[zeke79]

John,

Thanks for taking the time to stop by and discuss your lock. It is not often we get this opportunity and it is appreciated and I hope you get some usefull feedback.

I am interested in possibly buying one of these locks with the manual dialer for my own testing and experimentation. If you need any references, disclosure information etc, just let me know.

[johnloughlin]

Stanton Concepts is planning a small production run of the RKS system and will offer serialized RKS cylinders and dialers for purchase in early 2008. The cylinder and dialer will be provided with a default combination but can be reprogrammed by the user. The RKS cylinder plug will be compatible with Medeco’s Bi-Axial removable core to allow easy retro-fitting into real world applications. Interface and programming information will be provided for the dialer so that users can layer on functionality such as auditing, biometrics, etc..

The price is yet to be determined but the idea is to make it affordable and accessible to all interested parties. For more information please contact me directly john@stantonconcepts.us

Suggestions and comments are welcome.

(this post was made with the permission from the administration at LP101)

[n2oah]

I'm interested in getting one.