Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe
The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.
by globallockytoo » 3 Oct 2007 9:25
I'm curious to know the opinions of members here regards the issues of licensing for locksmiths in your respective countries.
Do you consider that the licensing has helped to clean up the trade, protect it from the scammer companies, make tools less widely available, driven up costs of tools, created higher wages, established critical licensing boards that are run efficiently?
The trade in the USA seems to be suffering immensely from an identity crisis. Many locksmiths are loathed to help other locksmiths or even participate in associations for fear of losing business to competitors.
The quantity of "backyarders" or DIY'ers is constantly seemingly increasing and the hobbiest community also seems to be having a telling effect on the quantity of business.
The reason I'm asking is because of a recent proposal to approach the Federal Government and Dept of Homeland Security to enact legislation requiring a national database of licensed locksmiths and the requirement of said licensing to be produced when purchasing security equipment?
The benefits of licensing could help to ensure that locksmiths livelihoods are protected well into the future.
-
globallockytoo
-
- Posts: 2269
- Joined: 26 Jul 2006 13:33
by JackNco » 3 Oct 2007 9:40
Well on a personal note im glad there is no regulated licensing here. Because knowing the UK if there were the next step (as is standard here) would be to ban anything thats fun from the general public that related to the license.
But on the other hand I think Licensing would be good for locksmiths. after all its the cowboys that are killing the trade.
John
-
JackNco
-
- Posts: 3149
- Joined: 14 Apr 2006 12:26
- Location: Coventry. UK
by zeke79 » 3 Oct 2007 9:52
I am all for it. It keeps out some of the rif raf and improves the quality of work seen in the trade overall. It also keeps felons, etc out of the trade.
Alot of good stuff has come from licensing.
For the best book out there on high security locks and their operation, take a look at amazon.com for High-Security Mechanical Locks An Encyclopedic Reference. Written by our very own site member Greyman! A true 5 Star read!!
-
zeke79
- Admin Emeritus
-
- Posts: 5701
- Joined: 1 Sep 2003 14:11
- Location: USA
-
by freakparade3 » 3 Oct 2007 10:13
More government regulation??? None for me thanks.
-
freakparade3
- Moderator Emeritus
-
- Posts: 3457
- Joined: 17 Sep 2006 12:01
- Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
by globallockytoo » 3 Oct 2007 10:35
freakparade3 wrote:More government regulation??? None for me thanks.
To be quite frank with you, i'm somewhat surprised by your reaction.
I would presume that the people most against licensing are more likely people who may not qualify or be able to obtain one.
The government regulation that actually increases your opportunity to earn more money is not a detriment to you, is it?
-
globallockytoo
-
- Posts: 2269
- Joined: 26 Jul 2006 13:33
by Jaakko » 3 Oct 2007 11:13
Well in here there is no license needed. If you want your customers trust, you can apply for a "security card" from the police, will cost about 30 EUR and you can get it if you apply for it and you don't have criminal history, as in burglary, snatching, or something related.
And this is drillers dream: Only Abloys, so drill will be your best buddy and bedmate 
-
Jaakko
-
- Posts: 1967
- Joined: 19 Feb 2006 4:23
- Location: Finland (Pirkkala)
-
by freakparade3 » 3 Oct 2007 11:52
globallockytoo wrote: To be quite frank with you, i'm somewhat surprised by your reaction. I would presume that the people most against licensing are more likely people who may not qualify or be able to obtain one.
The government regulation that actually increases your opportunity to earn more money is not a detriment to you, is it?
I'm not worried about being able to obtain a license. Site rules prevent me from saying what I really want to so I'll say this. I'd gladly give up some income to not have the government telling me what I can and can't do even more than usual.
-
freakparade3
- Moderator Emeritus
-
- Posts: 3457
- Joined: 17 Sep 2006 12:01
- Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
by HeadHunterCEO » 3 Oct 2007 16:31
Pro license here
Actually this is a current issue in the county i operate from Nassau.
I see it as validation of the trade and a barrier to entry for half assed hacks
Today i was teaching an electrician how to hook up a stand alone chexit device . He got the job on a lower bid because he already has a crew of people there pulling wire.
now i was getting T&M anyway showing him but the point is with the license the carpenter can't install it and the elec can't hook it up.
Only a licensed lockie will be allowed to secure.
Doorologist
-
HeadHunterCEO
-
- Posts: 1262
- Joined: 7 Apr 2004 21:10
- Location: NY,NY
by blake1803 » 3 Oct 2007 17:05
HeadHunterCEO wrote:I see it as validation of the trade and a barrier to entry for half assed hacks
The problem with this mindset is that obtaining a license (in California at least, I'm not sure about other states) is simply a matter of some paperwork and fees. It's just one small hoop for a less-than-qualified locksmith to jump through -- not much of a barrier.
How do other states handle licensure? Is there a test of some kind?
-
blake1803
-
- Posts: 291
- Joined: 28 Oct 2005 16:33
- Location: California
by greyman » 3 Oct 2007 17:10
Sounds like the age-old argument that started up the Guilds in the middle ages. There's definitely pros and cons either way. It creates a "masonic" club that's hard for outsiders to get into. Without it, you can argue that standards are meaningless or there aren't any standards.
All I can say, is that in most if not all professions there is a licensing or certification body of some sort, and whether you need to use it or not depends more on the profession you're in than whether you really need to use it or not
Apologies if this is not on track.
-
greyman
-
- Posts: 1026
- Joined: 21 Mar 2005 16:43
- Location: NSW, Australia
by JK_the_CJer » 3 Oct 2007 18:16
For the moment, I am 100% against this. The fact that it is yet another restriction put into place in the name of "national security" aside, it would have a horrible effect on the hobbiest community. I imagine federal laws prohibiting the possession of "burglary tools" and huge annual fees for those licensed. I imagine it being rediculously difficult to purchase commercial picks and other tools. My reaction: hell no.
-
JK_the_CJer
- Supporter

-
- Posts: 725
- Joined: 19 Jul 2006 20:56
- Location: San Diego, CA
-
by Eyes_Only » 3 Oct 2007 22:07
I don't think it really matters. I live in California where locksmiths are required to be licensed but I never had any trouble obtaining just about any locksmith tool I wanted.
If a lock is a puzzle, then its key is the complete picture
-
Eyes_Only
- Supporter

-
- Posts: 4111
- Joined: 17 Dec 2003 20:33
by zeke79 » 3 Oct 2007 23:05
Eyes_Only wrote:I don't think it really matters. I live in California where locksmiths are required to be licensed but I never had any trouble obtaining just about any locksmith tool I wanted.
I second that. Licensing has nothing to do with the laws concerning posession of lockpicks.
Licensing is good as it keeps the hacks out and puts a more professional group of people out there which makes it easier to keep a fair wage for yourself and prevents you in alot of cases from getting called to repair something that someone has totally botched up because they were untrained.
I think it has little to do with the government telling you what to do. It has more to do with protecting the consumer from uninsured people in the trade, it enforces a minimum level of training required (state testing). Overall it helps keep locksmiths with a good reputation with the public.
I like the state licensing and back it up 100%.
For the best book out there on high security locks and their operation, take a look at amazon.com for High-Security Mechanical Locks An Encyclopedic Reference. Written by our very own site member Greyman! A true 5 Star read!!
-
zeke79
- Admin Emeritus
-
- Posts: 5701
- Joined: 1 Sep 2003 14:11
- Location: USA
-
by freakparade3 » 3 Oct 2007 23:26
zeke79 wrote:I think it has little to do with the government telling you what to do. It has more to do with protecting the consumer from uninsured people in the trade, it enforces a minimum level of training required (state testing). Overall it helps keep locksmiths with a good reputation with the public.
You make a good point Zeke. I just don't trust that if the govenrment starts that it will stop with background checks and a license. I'm bonded and insured and for the most part I know what I'm doing so i'm not worried about passing a test. Mabye I should not have posted in this thread, I don't trust my government, then again I've been called crazy because I don't believe man ever landed on the moon either. I keep thinking back to an old saying "Of course you can trust the government, just ask an indian". For those of you that don't know, I am an indian.
Kaotik Edit - Fixed quote
-
freakparade3
- Moderator Emeritus
-
- Posts: 3457
- Joined: 17 Sep 2006 12:01
- Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
by tuxz0r » 5 Oct 2007 2:04
i wouldn't be for it either. the government already looks at everyone as terrorists. this would just be another nail in the coffin for hobbyists who currently possess tools. the federal government could seize all shipping records for the past six years and prosecute everyone for possession of locksmith only tools. can we say this is just like our right to bear arms as long as we fill out state federal forms background check then buy the permits pay the fines and then purchase the gun. almost not worth it to me. just what i think would happen imho. people who pick locks don't do it for crime. if i really wanted in somewhere my leg is more than strong enough to kick a door in.
-
tuxz0r
-
- Posts: 5
- Joined: 13 Sep 2007 14:36
Return to Got Questions? - Ask Beginner Hobby Lockpicking Questions Here
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests
|