Just signed up for Foley-Belsaw locksmithing school...

[pickmonger]

I have noticed people selling their FB Manuals, (some were photocopies,some were not) on ebay. No tools or hardware just the manual.

If you want the information and do not care about a diploma, or credentials this might be a viable option for you.

Even if you are considering buying the whole shebang, a manual only purchase, would give you a good look at what you would be getting for your money.

[abrace]

Just signed up for the course, asked for thr $599 deal and got it without any difficulty. I am taking this course because I am interested in the material. I am a 100% newbie with rekeying locks, lockpicking etc, so I will be sure to post my thoughts on the course from that perspective.

[hippy5749]

I'd like to know if aanyone else is having a hard time with the impressioning of pin tumblers lesson. I just can not see the marks that are supposed to be there.

[Romstar]

I'd like to know if aanyone else is having a hard time with the impressioning of pin tumblers lesson. I just can not see the marks that are supposed to be there.

Everyone has a hard time with it.

Prep the blank, and try to make it as smooth as possible.

If you haven't had any success, take the time to look at the preped blank for a long time. Try to memorize any irregularities in the surface.

Then, put the key in the lock, and move it around as instructed. The, take it out gently, and look at it again.

Because you memorized the surface, you should be able to notice anything that is now different. Look carefully at the locations where the pins should be. You will see some small round indentions.

In some cases they will look like discolourations, but they are there.

This is where your fun begins. File as instructed, and repeat the proceedure.

If you still can't figure it out then follow an example from Digital_Blue's picking guide, and strip the lock down to 1 pin. Then try to impression 1 pin. Up the count to 2 pin stacks and do it again. Continue until you can get all five positions.

This will obviously require more blanks than you get with the course. Go out and buy them. Or, get a new cylinder and the appropriate blanks.

Then, just like anything else...........

Practice, practice, practice
Romstar

[honesthans]

Hi,

I just got the 21-30 pack and have been reading through them. I haven't started the pin tumbler impressioning assignment yet, but I didn't see anything in the reading about smoking the key and was wondering if that help or hurts with this type of lock?

[Romstar]

Hi,

I just got the 21-30 pack and have been reading through them. I haven't started the pin tumbler impressioning assignment yet, but I didn't see anything in the reading about smoking the key and was wondering if that help or hurts with this type of lock?

Well, it certainly isn't going to hurt anything.

One of the things that you have to remember about smoking a pin tumbler blank is that all of the pins are going to ride up the tip. This means 5 pins on position 5, 4 on position 4, etc..

The best reading will come from the space closest to the shoulder.

Unless.......

If you smoke the key, insert just the tip into the lock until it touches the first pin, and then turn the key. Keep it turned in that direction as you complete inserting the key.

This will cause the pins to ride one side of the blank, rather than the center. After the key is all the way in move it around as instructed. Then, turn the key again in the same direction as you did when you inserted it, and withdraw the key.

Look for marks across the spaces.

Romstar

[ldnlksmth]

you might find getting a better file helps to create a more 'welcoming' blank. Get a swiss cut # 2 or #4 in either round or teardrop shape. The finer lines will 'rub off' more easily, making it easier to see the depression.

Also, try getting a wafer tumbler lock. The marks are easier to see (either on the side or across the top) they show up as lines, not dents. Might help you get a feeling for it.

[rwp42]

I spent the past two days reading every single post on this thread. First of all -- thank you all for your detailed and insightful information. You have collectively helped me make up my mind to send for the FB information packet, and then bargain for a deal on the lessons. My intention is to wait until the packet arrives, then call them and request the $599 + pick gun deal, waive my 'cool off period', and request all 30 lessons at once.

It is not my intention to race through the lessons. I am as excited about the process as I am the end result. I have found in locksmithing the combination of my love of mechanisms and nifty tools.

So thanks again! I'll follow up from time to time with my progress and own experiences with FB.

RwP

[Black Zero]

Please let me know how things go with this course if you could. I'm very interested and would like to get an idea of how everything works with this type of course.

[rwp42]

I received my information packet from Foley-Belsaw last night. They also sent their Locksmithing catalog (which, based on looking at other suppliers, has only a few items that are really 'good deals').

This morning I picked up the phone and spoke with a very nice lady about signing up for the class. I told her that I had done a lot of research, and knew that they offered the class at $599. Could I please have that price? She asked for the price code at the bottom of my offer. Of course, the code did not match the price I was asking for (the code was tied to their normal $769 price). She poked at her computer for a while, and finally gave up and said: "I'll just leave the codes alone and give you the $599 price".

I then said that I would like to waive the 30-day trial period, and ask that they send all 30 lessons at once. She said no problem, and made a note in my file. She said that lessons 1-15 would ship tomorrow, and lessons 16-30 the next day. Lessons 26-30 actually come packed in the key machine box.

She told me that my student ID ships separately with my welcome packet, and pointed out that my ID number was printed on my packet in case I needed support before the ID arrives.

I thanked her for her terrific service.

RwP

[globallockytoo]

Okay....now I understand why I had difficulty offloading the FB course i had for sale.

I certainly hope the key machine is worth the extra value. Most FB machines that I have seen are really useless and apparently have problems.

Good Luck!

I hope you can get your California license with those qualifications.

[rwp42]

globallockytoo -

I'm sorry that you had difficulty selling your course, and also that it seems to have translated into a general dislike for FB in general. Do you have personal experience with FB? How many FB key machines have you personally used and experienced problems with? What specific kinds of problems? Were they set up and calibrated correctly?

If you have genuine empirical information about the products, I would be very interested to hear. But I'd appreciate more than the vague "apparently have problems".

In reading the 25 pages of this particular thread, it seems that most of the people who actually took the course are fairly happy with their machines. The FB200 is an entry-level duplicator, but on the other hand, is included as part of a $600 correspondence course.

Once I reach the last five lessons, I will certainly have my own opinions about the machine -- good or bad -- and will share them with the group.

RwP

[rwp42]

Relative to CA licensing:

CA does not require any specific training to get a license -- they do, however, require a background check, fingerprints, and a fee (~$100 I think).

I am personally interested in the FB course as a way to make myself somewhat more attractive as a potential apprentice to a local locksmith. It's been stated repeatedly in this forum that no single course -- online, correspondence, or even in person -- will give you the experience that you need to be a locksmith; only real-world hands-on will do that. I look forward to working in the field with someone who has that experience, and REALLY learning the trade.

RwP

[jimb]

Okay....now I understand why I had difficulty offloading the FB course i had for sale.

Some of the problem selling your course could have been that these sometimes sell on ebay for 50 bucks or less with all the lessons and you had a starting bid of $100 with a missing book.

As far as the fb key machine goes I've been using mine for about a year now and if kept calibrated it will work fine.

[lostlink]

rwp42,

Good luck with the FB course.......

I fully paid for mine in early summer (or late spring).
I have only completed 15 lessons so far, partly because living in the Mid West it's easy to put off "inside stuff" until the weather gets bad again.
Even though the course starts out quite easily I did learn alot that I would not have gotten from my work experience.

As far as the machine goes.......I did cut about a dozen KW1 keys. The first few did not work as smooth as they should have, partly due to me being in a hurry when calibrating the machine. When I slowed down and recalibrated the other keys worked fine.....

The next keys I want to copy will be for an old Welch (WE-1) 4 pin gate lock then some small format IC keys.


Stick with it and enjoy.......