5G Pick Choice - Safeventures against Chris Belcher

[smithlock]

Hello,

I am new to the area of an aspiring locksmith. I want to buy a mortice pick, either the Safeventures 5G curtain pick or the Chris Belcher 5G pick, the question is, does the Chris Belcher 5G pick open the same makes & models that the Safeventures does? And if not, what differences do either pick have?

I know it may be a vague question but I thought someone may be able to help.

Thank You

Smithlock

[taylorgdl]

CB picks more.

There are other posts on this.

[elbarto]

Hi smithlock,

I know nothing about curtain locks but wanted to share this product with you incase it was similar to the one you are considering.

http://ukbumpkeys.com/curtainpick.html

Its a new product being advertised on another forum that I visit. Its about 146 GBP delivered from what I can tell from the posts I have seen in the past (not sure if that is for international aswell).

If it is what you are chasing it might be worth a look

Elbarto

[lockey1963]

seen it and is a copy of the ICL and RB tools , and has the same picking problems on uk BS3621 locks.

Like the RB tool it will be fine on non BS union and old version legge locks, it will pick some bs locks as long as no really low levers exist.
This tool will not pick ERA with lowest levers, nor will it pick union with lowest levers nor legge.

The design is old hat and if copying a tool it would have been a good idea to have copied a more versatile one .

My advice is to forget this tool if working commercially and stick to the tools that proffessional locksmiths swear by and use daily, currently the only 2 toolmakers that make a curtain pick for low levered locks ( which is most of them) is chris belchers tools sold through duffells and the francis tools sold through aldridges.

The most versatile being the CB tools sold by duffells, these can pick every BS lock on the market regardless of low levers, including the fortress which trust me this new copy pick cannot, so if for commercial use spend the little extra for tools that can and will do the job rather than a cheaper tool that cannot due to flawed design and poor wire design.

if to play with only rather than use commercially then any pick will do.

[taylorgdl]

Agree with the above post also.

SV tool is esier to use, but the CB works on more, and extra wires can be bought to open further locks.

Can't get the CB fortress wire to work though. But I also can't get the Francis one to work either, yet.

Bumpkeys tool is a copy, and an expensive one at that (compared to the ICL members price for the same pick).

I use the SV pick for Union, and it opens them in moments.

[British Standard]

Hello Everyone
I am new here but I felt I had to say a few words about the Dangerfield Curtain Pick - I know for a fact that neither of the two people who comment on it above have not used one. It comes with a 4 picks as standard - (2 left, 2 right) - 2 are the old style with the kink and fatter stem - the other two are the thinner picks with the perfect right angle and the curved pick. I have been playing with this pick for three days and have opened aan Era Viscount, the red Union BS and the silver/grey chubb 3U114.
I find it outrageous that you can be so negative about a tool you haven't used - and it's hard really to say it's a 'copy' when surely it's a generic tool? There's not much more you can do to change it beyond decoration - the thumbwheels lend themselves well to the picking technique as well.
If you go to their site (pm m) you'll be able to read loads of testimonials regarding the quality of this pick.
At least have a go before you criticise, it seems a bit arrogant.
thanks for reading
British Standard

[Jaakko]

Hello sir/madam British Standard and welcome to the forums!

Please, you should not be using colors to enchance your whole text, as it is annoying. And please read the forums rules before posting, as PM or email requests are not allowed.

Other than that, a good criticism is always a good start for more conversation

[chip]

I have used the icl version of this pick and I have to agree with Lockey1963 and taylorgdl.

With the style of the body, it makes it difficult to angle the wires to get them under the really low levers.

out of interest British Standard, what ae the lever hights in your locks.

I do use the icl pick on Union as sometimes needs a little extra tension but you just can't beat the CB for picking and feel.

Also how do you know for a FACT these 2 people haven't used te pick, do you live in their tool boxes???

[NickBristol]

There's nothing much wrong with the Dangerfield pick from the look of it as it seems pretty well made and it's always nice to have extra wires included.

Being able to pick Viscounts or the 'lower' end Chubbs / Unions / Yales is an achievement in itself for a tool but it is not quite a generic tool. It is similar to the differences between Majestic picks and Peterson picks - to 90% of interested people they seem identical but to the most experienced people the differences are magnified. It's not arrogant to voice expertise gained by experience. Picking BS mortice locks on the door is all about feel, knowledge of the lock and patience. Watching the levers lift on a Viscount makes it very easy to pick whatever tool is used.

As more and more people use this new curtain pick it's strengths and weaknesses will become apparent. Personally I think it would be a decent pick for a newly trading lockie to use but with the expectation that it would be upgraded to one of the two acknowledged front-runners as he came up against more and more secure locks.

Being able to pick the BS3621:2004 ERA Fortress seems to be one of the key tests for any professional pick so it will be interesting to see how people fare with this new pick.

[crazyman]

Hello Everyone
I am new here but I felt I had to say a few words about the Dangerfield Curtain Pick - I know for a fact that neither of the two people who comment on it above have not used one. It comes with a 4 picks as standard - (2 left, 2 right) - 2 are the old style with the kink and fatter stem - the other two are the thinner picks with the perfect right angle and the curved pick. I have been playing with this pick for three days and have opened aan Era Viscount, the red Union BS and the silver/grey chubb 3U114.
I find it outrageous that you can be so negative about a tool you haven't used - and it's hard really to say it's a 'copy' when surely it's a generic tool? There's not much more you can do to change it beyond decoration - the thumbwheels lend themselves well to the picking technique as well.
If you go to their site (pm m) you'll be able to read loads of testimonials regarding the quality of this pick.
At least have a go before you criticise, it seems a bit arrogant.
thanks for reading
British Standard

Sigh Chris we know its you writing this message we can tell its you, stop shilling and spamming the forum. You have being banned before for doing this.

Check out what he says in this post http://ukbumpkeys.com/forum.html
Getting people to fight your battles so sad, check out his other posts he uses the same writing style and colour

[British Standard]

Hello all
You are right about The Era Viscount - the levers make it a doddle - I also have an excellent Curtained locks I.D. manual which makes things a lot easier, you can see the shape of the gates etc- so I had that assisting me too with the other locks - I'll be putting them on You Tube soon
It's easy to lift the pick (wheel end) up to attack lower lever - you can also 'drag' the pick when turning the bolt thrower which means its a lot lower when the thrower is 'set' as it were.
Since there are four pick ends (two large stem 'kinked-bend' picks and two right angled'thinner' picks) and I haven't found a lever I couldn't reach yet (obviously that doesn't mean I've opened them all)
I have used the CB pick in the psast and it's aslo fine.
I think most people who regularly pick curtain locks have a few lengths of piano wire hanging about and sometimes yiou make a pick end up especially for the lock in hand - this is quite usual - our man who wrote the Mortice ID manuals has a whole host of picks for his curtain pick which he uses for different locks as and when. In fact, I'm putting together a set of 8 picks - 4 left and four right - with different characteristics.
Let's see what the upshot of this whole thing has been:
My Pick works a treat on loads of curtained locks, comes with four pick ends as standard and is a good price.
ICL has significantly dropped the price of their pick.
The Customer wins everytime.
I'll get a vid of me doing an Era Fortress with it asap

regards
British Standard

[taylorgdl]

Your pick will not open a fortress/classic without some alteration.

Nor does the ICL pick.

Or the RB pick.

Or the SV pick.

Or the CB pick (extra wire is available), but the (older 5g) tool still needs adapting.

By the way, all of your tools are available from Magic tools in Singapore. Looks like you buying in bulk and selling on to the novice/hobbiest market.

[Chris B]

To announce that a tool cannot do something is quite a statement.

May I clarify the above statement about the CB RPCP 5g Pick.
This tool came onto the market BEFORE the ERA Fortress was distributed.

On the same day that the ERA lock became available, a modification was announced so that the tool could be modified by the owners of the picks, or that they could send it to me for modification to open the Fortress, and to manipulate the Fortress, it required a lock specific wire.
The CB Fortress Wire is capable in the hands of a competent lock picker, of opening the Fortress in approx 15 seconds.
The NEW CB Fortress Wire is even better.

It is possible using a modified CB Wire to open the ERA Fortress mounted left-hand only with the RB Curtain Pick and it’s clones. To date, these Curtain Picks are not capable of picking the Fortress RIGHT-hand mounted.

If anyone wishes to send me their old CB F Wire, with a S.A.E. [stamp addressed envelope – preferably padded] I will be happy to modify it for them to improve its performance, the latest modification to the CB F Wire will also allow the lock to be fully opened reducing the risk of damaging the wire. Also, if anyone still has the original CB 5g Pick which they would like modified, again, just send it to me in a S.A.E., I will modify it and send it back FOC. Be quick, otherwise we may be gone, so this offer is for a limited time only.

Email me first and I'll send you my address.

My best regards to all
Chris B

Gordon, you are right, it is all about the tension.....

[taylorgdl]

And practice.

[ilmr]

The ICL pick seems to be "improved" (check http://guildfordlocks.co.uk/toolscurtainpick.htm )
Have you taken in account these changes or is it still so that you can't pick those locks?