Security pins and binding order

[elbarto]

Just a quick question for those who have experience with security pins. I have finally got around to getting my hands on a few security pins (ordered a lab kit from lockpicks.com) and have rekeyed a lock I have with them.

First I tried 2 security pins and 1 standard pin [possitions 1,2,3] Picked it ok. The binding order was no different to what I was used to (with all standard pins the binding order was approx 4,5,3,2,1 tho not to sure about pins 2 and 4 as they are very shollow cuts and the pick usually sets them without even trying).

Now I have pined it with 3 security pins and 2 standard pins [1,2,3,4,5] and it feels like a completely different lock. pin 3 feels like it is binding before pin 5 which was a supprise.

Im just wondering If this is typical of rekeying a lock with spool pins?

Thanks

ps.(I should note that I haven't picked this lock in this configuration yet)

[mercurial]

Yes, adding security pins will alter the binding order when picking.

The pin stacks with no security pins are ALWAYS going to bind before pin stacks where the thinner part of a spool/mushroom is over the sheer line.

...Mark

[Eyes_Only]

From my experience I found that if you throw in some serrated drivers into the mix those will sometimes....SOMETIMES bind first before the regular solid pins because they dont have such a narrow center as a spool. Or it could just be me and I could be wrong.

[elbarto]

Ok thanks alot for that. I think I will need to have a bit more of a think about how these spool pins behave, this arangment is proving to be quite a puzzle.

One more thing tho, is the narrow section of a spool pin always exposed to the shear line when a pin is at rest or do you get some cases where the full body of the spool pin is at the shear line and the narrow section gets exposure once the pin is lifted?

[MacGyver101]

Depending on the dimensions on the spool and the depth of the cut, you may find a pinstack where the narrow portion of the spool is above the shearline... but that's something you'd want to avoid if you were pinning a lock, as it defeats the purpose of having a spool.

[Trip Doctor]

Another note to keep in mind (which you probably have figured out by now): Sometimes (I wanna say.. 50-50? depends on the lock I guess) when you're setting the false set spools, the pins in the other chambers might unset, and you'll have to set them again (exept now you have the spool(s) set and the lock will spin free rather than catch the spool). So your binding order might go something like {3241345} (here spool pin 1 unsets pins 3 and 4). With multiple spools you might even have to set some pins 3 or 4 times (well I'm sure you get the point by now). The bitchy situations are where a couple of spool pins keep unsetting each other.

[elbarto]

Thanks for the help, managed to pick my lock consistently last night. Took a bit of getting used to with all the setting the pins a number of times. One thing tho in regards to MacGyver101's post, wouldn't it be a little harder to pick a lock if the narrow section of a spool was below the shear line and the full body of the spool was at the shear line? When u lift the pin slightly the plug would rotate a bit, and you wouldn't be able to tell if the pin you just lifted was a spool pin or if the pin you just lifted was the last normal pin to bind and the rest of the pins to be set were spools? Just a querey I have after playing with a few spools.

Regards Elbarto

[Trip Doctor]

One thing tho in regards to MacGyver101's post, wouldn't it be a little harder to pick a lock if the narrow section of a spool was below the shear line and the full body of the spool was at the shear line? When u lift the pin slightly the plug would rotate a bit, and you wouldn't be able to tell if the pin you just lifted was a spool pin or if the pin you just lifted was the last normal pin to bind and the rest of the pins to be set were spools? Just a querey I have after playing with a few spools.

Regards Elbarto

I believe that actually is the case when you use spools with short key pins, but if you know how to deal with spools, it won't really make it that much harder. When you falsely set a spool, you know it's a spool because the plug spins a significant amount more than it would spin at a normal pin set. A lot of times when that happens though, the spool will bind like a normal pin, and therefore bind because some other pins, in which case the plug wouldn't give you the "spool-spin", but rather a regular "set pin spin" (and then you'd get the spool false once you set the rest of the pins). So I guess in that context it does produce more work, but like I said, I think that if you know how to deal with spools, that will make an insignificant difference in difficulty.