BEST IC

[Jes]

ok the company i work for has best inerchangable core locks the problem is they seem to have lost there master key
my boss knowing my hobby of locksmithing (i opened his car when he locked his keys in it he sooo owes me)asked me if i could make a master key from one of our padlocks
so here i am i have removed the core from a padlock useing my trusty dremel milling out the slot that locks the cam in place
i have just placed my order for the key blanks from lico key number a1114k i hope that this is the right one it is very close to a1114j if its not i will just make another order but i do have the key that opens the lock
i hope that only one key opens the lock that would make my life a little easier to do the pin out and file the key
so guys i really could you a few pointers i have a few days before the keys arive and i havent opened the core yet and i dont have all the nice toys to load and unload ic locks just the locksmithing basic tools
so any ideas to help out i sure could use i think i may have bitten off a little more than i could chew on this one

thanks
Jes

[mercurial]

I think you have definately bitten off more than you can chew.

BEST keys must be cut to very very fine tolerances, cutting these keys with handfiles is going to be nearly impossible.

Deriving the bitting of the master key from one core, without a single operating key simply isn't possible, either.

Also, unless you have experience with these locks, picking which key blank you need to order by eye can be difficult.

A locksmith, somewhere, set up these locks for the company. They will have the codes on file, and will be able to cut master and control keys for your boss.

Regarding disassembling/reassembling the cylinder without the appropriate tools - once you have punched out the pin stacks, don't count on being able to reassemble the lock in working condition. The springs will be squashed & the brass caps aren't really reusable.

...Mark

[Eyes_Only]

Very true. If you don't have the proper tools and good working knowledge of these locks you're headed for disaster most likely. I have the proper tools and the code machines to make the keys for at work and I still sometimes get a little stuck with these things.

I'm not trying to put you down and sabotage your honest hearted efforts but I would take mercurial's advice on this and back away from this one.

On the other hand if you can get the proper ejection/capping tools and pin kits go ahead and try it on one lock and see how it goes. If it doesn't work out, tell your boss that its time he called the locksmith and pay them for it.

[Jes]

guys thanks for the posts and no i dont think any one here is trying to "put me down" i very much understand the security grade of the lock
and the fine tolerances that make this such great lock
i am trying to help out a friend/boss but also i see this a a personal test i just want to know if i can my keys just got here cool
as for the lock reassembling it will not happen it has been sacrificed for the cause i DO have the key that opens the lock
i plan on opening each pin cylinder measureing and recording each pin and its order from there i will disassemble the lock and begin fitting the key to the pins
if you have any tips or tricks that i could use or info that you think would be helpful

thanks again

Jes

[nothumbs]

You should take a look at:

http://www.crypto.com/photos/misc/sfic/

which you would of found had you done a site search, assuming site search ever works again (or use google).

[Jes]

thank you but i have allready found that site it was most helpful

[WOT]

Things are not adding up.

1. Your boss lost both the control key and the master key?

2. Why are you ordering blanks and trying to brew it yourself instead of paying a locksmith with a code machine $10 to do it?

Could you PM me the name of company and the name of contact person?

[WOT]

Ok, I just re-read your thread.

I just can't see why someone would order blanks in supplier's minimum qty, pay S&H, and go through the trouble of not just making it himself, but making it himself with a file all for one out-of-spec key when just about any full service locksmith with a Framon #2 or HPC1200 can make you a properly cut key for $10-12.

[Eyes_Only]

Aww come on, let this one go. Most of us takes on a small job of some sort like this sooner or later. Besides if he makes a mistake he'll learn more out of it. Thats the only way I ever learn anything.

[mercurial]

Here is a guide to cutting a key for a normal pin tumbler cylinder : http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=9996

If you understand how a BEST cylinder works, the same principles apply, and you can use the same method.

As I've said, I think this is going to be a VERY difficult task, but as Eyes_Only pointed out, if you don't succeed, you can still learn in the process.

I misread your first post, I thought you had no keys to the cylinder. If the master key system is well designed, or even just complicated, you won't be able to easily derive the master key bitting with one key and one cylinder.

...Mark

[daemondust]

In general each pin stack looks something like this:

Code: Select all

  ----
    \
    /
    \
    /
   ---
  |   |
  | T |
  |---|
  |   |
  |BU |
  |---|
  |   |
  | M |
  |---|
  | B |
  \---/


From top to bottom you have:

pin stack cap
spring
top pin
build-up pin
master pin (there may be more than one of these)
bottom pin

Since you have an operating key you can find the master if there's only one. If the core has multiple masters you won't be able to know which cuts are for which master.

Using something like this you can remove the pin stacks intact and use calipers or a micrometer to measure the pin lengths. Page 10 of this shows the lengths of all the pins.

After removing the pin stacks you measure each pin to determine the pinning. For example: You measure the bottom pin to be 0.1225 inches long, the next pin 0.025 inches, next .150 and the top pin 0.100 inches. From measuring the key (see page 9) you find that that position corresponds to 1. Thus the master for that pin stack is 3 because the sum of the bottom and master pins is 3. Finding the control key requires a little bit more math, but not much. Measure the build-up pin and compare it to the table on page 10. Here I'm assuming it is pin 12. The control bitting is found from C + 10 - (B + M) = U where C is the control cut, B is the bottom pin, M is the master pin and U is the build-up pin (here 12). So, C+10-(1+2)=12, C=5. From all of that you find that the normal operating cut for that pin stack is 1, the master key is cut to 3, and the core changing key is cut to 5. Repeat this for the 5 or 6 pin stacks left and you have the master and control key codes

From page 9 you have the corresponding key cut depths if you want to try filing a key yourself or using the key code you found above you can have someone with a code cutter make the keys.

You can find no-name analog/dial or digital calipers for around $30-40 that work nearly as well as the several-hundred-dollar name brand calipers. The pinning block is more expensive (around $170 for the one I linked to along with a pinning kit) but you may be able to work around that with tools you already have if you're careful.

[rakemaster]

I misread your first post, I thought you had no keys to the cylinder. If the master key system is well designed, or even just complicated, you won't be able to easily derive the master key bitting with one key and one cylinder.

I don't think that's true. One cylinder and it's lowest level operating key should be sufficient to derive the master key. There's an article on crypto.com about this. I don't have the exact link, sorry.

[mercurial]

I misread your first post, I thought you had no keys to the cylinder. If the master key system is well designed, or even just complicated, you won't be able to easily derive the master key bitting with one key and one cylinder.

I don't think that's true. One cylinder and it's lowest level operating key should be sufficient to derive the master key. There's an article on crypto.com about this. I don't have the exact link, sorry.

With a conventional pin tumbler lock (as discussed in the cypto.com article) you can sometimes derive the master key bitting from one key and one cylinder.

This is certainly not the case for all master key systems. Following the system described in Matt Blaze's article at crypto.com will result in a key that may operate other locks in the system, but not necessarily the top GMK.

...Mark

[mercurial]

The link to the crypto.com article is http://www.crypto.com/papers/mk.pdf.

[daemondust]

If there's one operating key and one master key and no false cuts, you can derive the master key with only the operating key and lock using the "adaptive oracle" technique described in http://www.crypto.com/papers/mk.pdf. Otherwise, you get a key that may or may not be a true master but will likely operate other locks in the system.