Titanium as stock for picks and wrenches

by **nothumbs** » 23 Oct 2007 15:22

Did some searching, didn't find any discussions that seemed to be based on hands-on experience. Spent a little time reading up on this stuff:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium

and it seems that it would be suitable for use in picking assuming you could machine it.

The reason I'm bringing this up is I ran into someone this last weekend who has access both to titanium stock scrap and the necessary CNC tools to fab it. What I'm looking for is experiential based commentary on whether this would be a worthwhile endeavor. I'm thinking more from the rigidity and durability factors than the light weight factor. Anyone have personal experience with titanium? Thoughts on how well it would work in either application (pick or wrench)? Clearly one would need to find a decent alloy with the appropriate properties.

by **Dragunov-21** » 23 Oct 2007 18:12

I don't think we've ever had any actual examples of Ti picks, though I heard they were on someone's wishlist (along with the rest of ours'). I'd say go for it, if nothing else, there's some major kudos to be had :twisted:

by **silme** » 23 Oct 2007 18:40

Base on my personnal esperience, titanium would be ideal.
It's hard, make good spring, grindable as hard steel, and can easily be anodized!
...but i only tried it in wire, 18 SWG and 20 SWG... too small to do good picks...
i wish to find some cheap sheet some day

by **criminalhate** » 23 Oct 2007 23:42

I don't think there will ever be cheap ti. Your best bet would be find a machine shop that makes some type of ti part and see if they have any scrap you could have/buy at scrape prices. As long as you don't get greedy and take all their scrape pieces most places will let you have a couple of pieces for free.

by **Eyes_Only** » 24 Oct 2007 0:21

I heard that TI gets stronger every time it gets heated so maybe this is one metal we can all go temper crazy on it.

by **mitch.capper** » 24 Oct 2007 0:27

Definately take lots of pictures:)

by **UWSDWF** » 24 Oct 2007 4:27

Ti tends to be a little too hard and brittle (I would think) but go nuts if you have the money to spend and let us know

by **raimundo** » 24 Oct 2007 7:00

I would be interested in some thin titanium about the shape of a sweeper bristle, and I am interested in its properties,
1. is titanium an alloy, like the duraluminium which is what most of us call aluminium/copper, (the alloy has hard properties that the element dosent have) so is titanium alloyed with something for various different properties? If so, what are the alloys and the properties.

2. How does titanium work with files, does the chip fill the file, is it too hard? or will a file shape it without difficulty, and how does it respond to sanding, (some metals will cause a file to chatter, and some surfaces are difficult to polish, leaving an orange peel effect)

3. What are the tempering characteristics of titanium, do you have to heat to set a bend against the memory?

4. Is titanium abrasive or naturally causeing friction, or is it like some other metals (brass alloy) which are slippery (of course its not like brass, but you know what I mean!

5. What is the corrosion of titanium, is it attacked by sulphur dioxide or other common elements?

well, metalurgists, and those who have worked with this stuff, can ya get me some answers?

by **LeeNo** » 24 Oct 2007 9:35

raimundo wrote:How does titanium work with files, does the chip fill the file, is it too hard? or will a file shape it without difficulty, and how does it respond to sanding, (some metals will cause a file to chatter, and some surfaces are difficult to polish, leaving an orange peel effect)

Titanium is very difficult to machine. It is nearly as hard as hardened steel and is easily pitted.

raimundo wrote:3. What are the tempering characteristics of titanium, do you have to heat to set a bend against the memory?

Powder metallurgy needs to be used with titanium because of its extremely high heat resistance. Being forced to work with scraps would probably be very difficult to shape/work the metal.

raimundo wrote:4. Is titanium abrasive or naturally causeing friction, or is it like some other metals (brass alloy) which are slippery (of course its not like brass, but you know what I mean!

Titanium is highly ductile.

raimundo wrote:5. What is the corrosion of titanium, is it attacked by sulphur dioxide or other common elements?

It is almost non-corrosive although some concentrated acids will dissolve it.

by **dmux** » 24 Oct 2007 10:30

yes, it is very hard to machine

i remember in metals we had a bunch of titanium to mess with and it is a very wierd metal, it will actually burn if you don't machine it right, it would take rolls of sandpaper to smooth all the mill marks out, the only good thing is that its pretty light

it is also somewhat brittle, i dont think it would be good for picks unless it was alloy'd but i would rather have 440 stainless chromoly an day because it would polish out to a mirror.

by **nothumbs** » 31 Oct 2007 12:02

From what I've been reading it machines much like stainless steel, with some exceptions.

http://titanium.corrosionmaterials.com/working/working.htm
http://www.tech.plym.ac.uk/sme/desnotes/titanium.htm
http://www.titanex.com/ti/titanium-alloys-titanium-supplier-titanlegierungen.php

I've some stock coming soon and will be trying some experiments to see what can be done with it. Neither my tools or skills in making stuff are sophisticated, but I can certainly come up with some base line hands-on data.

by **NKT** » 31 Oct 2007 13:52

Considering how hard it is to even find a steel with the right properties for a good pick, I'd not bet on you finding the perfect titanium alloy right off the bat.

As regards machining it, these days, anything can be machined. Even carbide. A spark eroder doesn't care about the hardness, only the conduction, and a good tool steel punch will still punch titanium sheet, if not for as many cycles as it would punch a soft steel.

The main issue with using titanium is that it is simply too weak. Yes, it's really hard and very expensive and cool when it is anodised to pretty colours, but it isn't as good as steel. For your pick to be the same strength, it will have to be 50% thicker to match a good steel.

by **LeeNo** » 1 Nov 2007 16:27

NKT wrote:As regards machining it, these days, anything can be machined.

I was thinkiing more about a typical person at home with a dremel and a flat file, some lockpick templates and a shiny new piece of titanium scrap.

by **NKT** » 3 Nov 2007 16:25

Perhaps ironically, for the guy at home, it will make little difference. For a one or two pick production run, with the omni-present Dremel cutting wheels, it will be no more difficult than a wiper blade insert.

In an industrial run of 1000 off, it would be somewhat more vital. Punches wear, edges blunt, bits get dull, and it puts the price right up.

However, I don't think Titanium will be a good idea. It's like a titanium sword. Great idea, but you need a huge slab of the stuff to match a bit of cheap steel.

by **Siegel** » 17 Nov 2007 7:45

Like I said on another thread (which I will ask the mods to delete) that has anyone thought of using a Ti tent peg and straightening it out. It may even work out surprisingly cheaper than using a new hack saw blade which can cost up Â£5 each.

Just an Idea and was wondering if anyone had tried it.
Cheers No-one/Siegel

Titanium as stock for picks and wrenches

Titanium as stock for picks and wrenches

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