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by Azazel » 2 Nov 2007 1:12
I am new to locksport and have noticed it is easier to open master padlocks #3 and #5 by merely raking the pins with a pick instead of single pin picking, and this got me thinking.
I was wondering, is single pin picking the most preferred way of picking, because it seems it is more commonly used, rather than raking. Any info from the veterans will be greatly appreciated.
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by Marco » 2 Nov 2007 1:32
If you are new to lockpicking then I would suggest that for now you practice mostly SPP, and maybe leave the raking for a little bit later once your skills have improved. You don't really learn to much from raking, whereas if you SPP you get to know the feel of the pins in their different states (not set, underset, overset, binding etc..).
SPP is the more consistant method. You can SPP any pin tumbler lock, but you cannot rake any pin tumbler lock. Generally you will not be able to rake open locks with a difficult bitting.
When people first tackle a lock, what they will usually do is rake at first, and this may set a couple of pins. Then they can SPP the rest of the pins into place.
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by bluestar » 2 Nov 2007 7:51
I think both techniques should be used together. Yes, as many mention, there are many locks where raking fails, but there are also many locks that are easily to rake but horrible to SPP. Use them both on an unknown lock, see with which one you have more success. SPP is more reliable (on some locks), but if you have the right technique to rake, it is incredibly fast.
Good luck
bluestar
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by FFVison » 2 Nov 2007 12:00
I agree... I'm relatively new to picking, but I typically SPP. I like it because I can feel the lock better. When I first picked my KwikPik deadbolt, it took about 20 or 30 seconds to get it locked (from the unlocked position:P). I picked it a few times and I can usually get it in about 15 seconds, on average. I tried raking it with my snake rake, and it takes about 2 rakes for it to turn.
I run into problems, however when the pins bind from front to back and I pretty much have to SPP. So, this lock takes me less than 5 seconds to lock, but about 15 seconds to unlock.
I STILL am not very good at raking, for the most part, so I can only rake a few locks. But the locks I can rake pop a LOT quicker when I do so.
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by Eyes_Only » 2 Nov 2007 13:47
I prefer SPP because it is almost gauranteed to work as long as you are skilled opposed to raking which sometimes won't work as already mentioned.
If a lock is a puzzle, then its key is the complete picture
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by josh0094 » 2 Nov 2007 13:53
i use both of the techniques. ill start with raking, then if the lock wont open ill single pin it, and boom. it opens
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by LeeNo » 2 Nov 2007 19:06
FFVison wrote:it took about 20 or 30 seconds to get it locked (from the unlocked position:P)
I have yet to pick my first lock, but I just ordered a pick set today and hope to have picked my first lock (A master commercial 21) next week.
Were you just kidding about SPPing the lock to get it from unlocked to locked? If this was an obvious joke then I apologize - I am too new at this to get it. Wouldn't a tension wrench be all that is needed to lock the lock? Or is pin binding still an issue? In my mind, I envision rapidly spinning the plug with the tension wrench and all the pins unset when you turn it all the way back.
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by le.nutzman » 2 Nov 2007 20:14
SPPing a lock is an almost full guarantee that you will get the lock open. *NOTE* The only way that i've seen and read on here to truely get the look open is either have a key or impression the lock. *NOTE* Raking is good for initially setting a couple pins but on higher end locks, SPPing is about the only way to go.
I'm not saying that raking is completely out, but in some cases it's effectiveness is greatly limited. As an example, when i pick American 5200s which is the current lock of choice for me, i can SPP most of them in about 2 minutes or less, but I can't rake any of them at all.
But i can rake almost any residential lock in a matter of seconds, but i'm still not quite sure if using Rai's bogata and the "jitter shake" is really considered raking.
Some will tell you there's no skill to raking, some will tell you it's part skill part luck. I agree with the latter. As you continue to pick locks, you'll come to your own conclusion, but if there's one thing everyone agrees on, whether you're raking or SPPing, tension is really everything. Hope this helps, happy picking.
Le

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by FFVison » 2 Nov 2007 20:30
LeeNo wrote:FFVison wrote:it took about 20 or 30 seconds to get it locked (from the unlocked position:P)
I have yet to pick my first lock, but I just ordered a pick set today and hope to have picked my first lock (A master commercial 21) next week. Were you just kidding about SPPing the lock to get it from unlocked to locked? If this was an obvious joke then I apologize - I am too new at this to get it. Wouldn't a tension wrench be all that is needed to lock the lock? Or is pin binding still an issue? In my mind, I envision rapidly spinning the plug with the tension wrench and all the pins unset when you turn it all the way back.
Actually, I wasn't joking... I was talking about a deadbolt, and it starts from an unlock position, so I picked it to the locked position.
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by Azazel » 2 Nov 2007 20:47
Thanks for all the responses! I'm always trying to improve my SPP skills, so thanks for all the feedback.
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by LeeNo » 2 Nov 2007 20:59
FFVison wrote:Actually, I wasn't joking... I was talking about a deadbolt, and it starts from an unlock position, so I picked it to the locked position.
Your post made me remember some locks I have unlocked with keys rotating a full 360 degrees - which would mean that the keys got reset - but the bolt happened to be unlocked
OK, it makes sense now. (My front door's deadbolt is attached to a lock that only rotates 180 degrees, that is where my confusion came from.
I wonder what the mechanics are that makes your lock easier to pick when unlocked.
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by LeeNo » 2 Nov 2007 21:01
LeeNo wrote:which would mean that the keys got reset
I meant to say "which would mean that the pins got unset".
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by FFVison » 2 Nov 2007 22:08
LeeNo wrote:FFVison wrote:Actually, I wasn't joking... I was talking about a deadbolt, and it starts from an unlock position, so I picked it to the locked position.
Your post made me remember some locks I have unlocked with keys rotating a full 360 degrees - which would mean that the keys got reset - but the bolt happened to be unlocked  OK, it makes sense now. (My front door's deadbolt is attached to a lock that only rotates 180 degrees, that is where my confusion came from. I wonder what the mechanics are that makes your lock easier to pick when unlocked.
Actually, it's easier to rake to lock it and that's only because it's easier to rake from the back of the lock to the front and, with this lock, the pins bind first from the back with a counterclockwise rotation. Now, to unlock it, you have to apply a clockwise torque, which, as you might imagine makes the pins bind from front to back. When the pins bind this way, it makes it harder to rake as you have to go from front to back, but it means that the pins are even easier to reach to SPP.
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by begin_picker » 2 Nov 2007 22:50
yes, some masterlocks are much quicker when you rake them, but it doesnt give you the same skills as spp, and you will find that not all locks will be as easy. and you wont have the skills need when this happens.
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by JK_the_CJer » 3 Nov 2007 8:04
I very much prefer SPP. Raking can get locks open very quickly...when it works. Some locks and bittings just don't mix well with raking. Wafer locks are an exception and are almost always raked. Raking is cool at first and can give you some confidence ("oh wow, its not impossible", etc...), but I think that SPP is much more fun, challenging, and capable. A lot of folks use a combination of SPP and raking. I used to SPP and let off a bit of tension, do a couple of rakes and then go back to SPP. I've sort of drifted away from that technique in favor of pure SPP lately, though.
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