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Just starting Out-got a Master No.3 From my shed..now what?

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

Just starting Out-got a Master No.3 From my shed..now what?

Postby furnaps » 23 Nov 2007 22:40

Ok Ive made Some Picks and a Tension Wrench Based On Some Templates Given to me in another thread I made.

And I Got an Old lock out of my shed , I know It works Because I found the key in a box of spare keys.

I've Never Succesfully Picked anything But this tiny Lock I have from like a Luggage Bag or something.

So Im Very Very New at this, I've Read Up on the basics Of how Locks Work & the Different Types Of Pins.

But I Dont Know the Technique To Actually Pick A lock & What tools Use What Techniques.

I have My Master Lock No.3 Here But I cant pick It for The life of me, And I've seen people pick the same lock in about 2 seconds On you-tube.

I tried a Half Diamond, And A Small hook? Also a Rake Pick.

Can someone Give me pointers on what do do and how to Know if im doing things rite?

Just basic Stuff.

Please Be gentle On me here, I really Want to learn this trade But I cant Seem to Pick a lock.

I've Watched Basic Videos About how to Put the tension wrench in and Apply pressure, But I have No idea How much?

Stuff like that Basically, I dont know if this is stuff that can be taught over the internet But If someone Would Like to give a few pointers I would Really love it.

Thanks,
Jeff
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Postby jgor » 23 Nov 2007 23:31

First, out of sheer curiosity, is there a pattern to which words you capitalize?

As for your questions, I can tell you that tension is the most important factor when learning how to pick. For the amount of pressure you should use on the tension wrench, I've heard it described as the amount of force it takes to push down a key on a keyboard. In my experience most new pickers try to use too much force.
Image
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Postby heelflip_kid » 24 Nov 2007 0:09

jgor wrote:As for your questions, I can tell you that tension is the most important factor when learning how to pick.


I totally agree. Generally, I use about the weight of my finger on the tension wrench and it works out ok - but I've found that a little more tension than that is needed when opening my various Master #3's. I would highly recommend that you also read d_b's guide. It helped me quite a lot when I was learning.

viewtopic.php?t=10677

Hope that helps and good luck on your first pick.
If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking. -- General George S. Patton
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Postby furnaps » 24 Nov 2007 0:30

lol - Sorry For the Random Capitalizations argh see im doint it again.

I cant help It its a bad typing habit of mine? I dont know why I do it....

But Heres Some Pictures Of the Lock Im starting With, and My Pick Set.

What Pick do you Recomend I use To Start out with on this Lock?

thanks.

Image

Image

Image
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Postby dougfarre » 24 Nov 2007 2:51

Those picks look fine. Now we need to work on your communication skills.
Image
Have questions about Locksport International? -> doug@locksport.com
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Postby dougfarre » 24 Nov 2007 2:56

Any of those picks will work. Seriously though man, your typing is outrageously hideous. Its not cool.
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Have questions about Locksport International? -> doug@locksport.com
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Postby furnaps » 24 Nov 2007 4:00

Thats Like telling an Illiterate Person That they suck at reading, Its not cool and its ignorant.

Ive never had any problems with people saying abything about it before on any other forums. Im sure you can still read what I wrote.

Please don't make fun, ok?

thanks
"You shouldn't Judge people By there past But by what they can become in the future"
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Postby furnaps » 24 Nov 2007 4:15

Forum Ettiquette Guidelines:

• Read all the rules; this includes both the site (HERE) and subject (B/S/T, Advanced Forums) rules. Also read the Forum and Subject guidelines, these are found under the Subjects title. Be sure to read all the stickies, they are there to help.

• "Think before posting". If an intended post will not make a positive contribution to the thread and be of interest to several readers, it should not be posted. Personal messages to one or two individuals should be sent via PM
"You shouldn't Judge people By there past But by what they can become in the future"
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Postby rontgens » 24 Nov 2007 5:38

Those look like good picks to start with.
I'd start with the pick on the far right...the hook.
This should help you feel the pins move.

Oh yeah try and read as much information as you possibly can if you want to learn....keep watching people on youtube...keep practising and you 'should' get better at picking.
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Postby furnaps » 24 Nov 2007 11:49

Thanks for the Info, Thats the first pick I made. I've tried Using Every pick so Far thats there but cant seem to get the hang of it. the only part in confused about is the Order in which your supposed to push the pins down, I've heard some people say from back to front or from front to back. And I've also heard something about Feeling for the pin thats caught? Or something?

I can pretty much feel the Pins And get most of them to Lock In But I can never get the last one or two pins to Lock In and let me turn the cylinder , they always just stay springy no matter how hard I push them in... What am I doing wrong here?
"You shouldn't Judge people By there past But by what they can become in the future"
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Postby splister » 24 Nov 2007 11:52

Those picks look good for starters, use the short hook you made, and experiment with different amounts of tension. Thats pretty much all there is to picking master #3's. Another tip i can give you, don't stop experimenting, you never know when you'll manage to open a lock. Think like this, once you pick it you'll know how you did it right? :)
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Postby furnaps » 24 Nov 2007 11:59

Any Ideas On why I cant get all the Pins to stick above the Line? I can get a few But I usually cant get the last two Pins To Stick and they just stay springy.
"You shouldn't Judge people By there past But by what they can become in the future"
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Re: Just starting Out-got a Master No.3 From my shed..now wh

Postby LeeNo » 24 Nov 2007 20:49

furnaps wrote:I have My Master Lock No.3 Here But I cant pick It for The life of me, And I've seen people pick the same lock in about 2 seconds On you-tube.

I tried a Half Diamond, And A Small hook? Also a Rake Pick.

Can someone Give me pointers on what do do and how to Know if im doing things rite?

Hi Jeff, I actually watched a vid on Youtube 2 days ago that really helped me with my MasterLock #3.

What he pointed out was that it opens both ways.

I was trying to open it clockwise but the pinning made it very difficult that way. I was able to open it a few times with hack and slash raking tachniques but I never knew when or if it would open.

After watching the vid, I realized I should try opening it counter-clockwise and it worked! I am now able to open that lock, consistently, in about 3-5 seconds.

What does that mean? Nothing. Only that I can open that particular lock. But by opening it slowly and then being able to open it with SPP with my half-diamond, it taught me a lot.

Anyways, the best way to open your #3 Master (at least by my experience) is to first feel the pins. Use your diamond and (without a tension bar) slowly insert it and feel the pins clicking as your tip slides over them. Make sure you clearly feel all 4 pins.

Then look at your key and notice how much shorter it is than your pick. This seems really obvious, but it took me quite some time before I stopped ramming the pick all the way to the back of the cylinder! If your pick isn't exactly where the key cuts are, then it is doing you NO GOOD WHATSOEVER.

Reach in again with your diamond or hook and feel each pin. Feel how little force is actually needed to lift each one. Almost all of the force you feel when sliding a key in the lock comes from the fact that they keys are cut at angles and it takes more force to make the pins slide up when applying lateral pressure with a 45 degree key than it does to lift the pins from directly beneath them. Whatever, all I am suggesting is that you get to understand the "feel" of the pins first.

OK, enough of this Obi Wan Kenobi stuff :D

The best tool for picking the Master #3 is the Big Rake. The one that looks like a jagged lightning bolt and not the smoother s-curve/snake rake. Why? Because the Master #3's pins match the teeth of the big rake and the snake rake is too "subtle" for a #3. I have opened it with the snake rake several times, but it is no where as easy and, when it did open, I was never sure why. It was just "scrub, scrub, scrub" and then *POOF* it opened (sometimes after failing dozens of times).

Remember that the #3 opens in either direction. If what you try seems to lead nowhere after some time, then switch the tension to the other direction. I tried for ages going clockwise and only had random successes but when I switched to CCW, I could open it in a few seconds - every time.

The #3 is a simple lock to compromise with picks so make sure that you know the lock actually works before you drive yourself crazy :D

Tension: Use a medium-light and consistent tension. By "medium-light", I mean about as much muscle-power as you would need to use to slowly and steadily roll a tennis ball along a flat surface using only your thumb.

Have your rake or diamond ready and insert the pick parallel to the keyway and as soon as you begin to lift the first pin apply the tension.

Continue to slowly insert the pick while keeping the tension the same.

After you reach the back of the keyway, increase the tension by a tiny amount and work the pick back out (raising the parallel plane you are raking by a tiny fraction). Continue to apply slightly more tension and raising the plane of your pick's movement each time your pick reaches each end of the keyway.

Be sure to understand the feedback that your hand operating the tension wrench is giving you! It is very easy to actually open the lock but not even know it because you are not aware of what your tension-wrench hand is telling you. You must stay in constant contact with your tension-hand!

If, after several insertions and retractions of your pick you haven't opened it, release the tension and let the pins reset and withdraw your pick.

Reflect on what it was that you felt during that attempt. How many pins set? How far did the cylinder rotate (note that most cylinders will only move a very few millimeters unless they are completely open).

Continue to repeat these steps - the feedback you get will make your task easier.
<sig>
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Postby Trip Doctor » 24 Nov 2007 21:08

I think that you'll benifit from a longer tension wrench (the handle that is). It'll give you a bit more feedback and control, and you'll be more comfortable holding it - the more you fuss to put the tension on the lock or move the pick around, the more trouble you'll have feeling what's going on inside the lock. But hey.. if you feel perfectly comfotable with the one you have, it's all you.
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Postby furnaps » 24 Nov 2007 21:57

Wow thanks everybody for the help, Im glad I came here. Leeno Im really glad you took the time to describe in so much detail how to do it, It should help a heck of alot.

I'll Try it out a few times and Let you know If I have any luck.


I just Hope I can get all the Pins to Lock above the shear line this time, as it seems like thats my biggest problem on this lock.
"You shouldn't Judge people By there past But by what they can become in the future"
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