The side of the feeler (HOOK) pick

[Aponi]

OK. So. I'm not exactly sure how to phrase this, because I'm not well versed in the lockpicking jargon. So I made a diagram. XD

When I say "Curvy end," I don't mean the handle. I mean the part where, on many diagrams the pick would look upside down. The curve.

All the lock diagrams I have been reading show that you touch the pins of the lock with the pointy part, the tip, of the feeler pick. (Please refer to my diagram. I know its bad, but I'd really love it if you had any idea what I'm trying to communicate.)

For many, many hours I had tried to pick with the pointy side of the pick. I can't do it that way.
Then, I wasn't paying attention, and I put the pick in the way that I percieved it to be upside down, where the curvy side, opposed to the point, was facing the pins. AND I picked it with the curve.

I tried again, and I picked it with the curve. I can't pick it with the pointy end, only the curvy side.
And now I wonder, are we supposed to use the pointy side of the feeler?
Or...
Are we supposed to use the curvy side?
Is this a weird thing?

I can't believe I'm going to ask this, but what side of the pick are you supposed to use, exactly?

[Title edited by MBI to improve search engine functionality.]

[maintenanceguy]

You usually want to lift pins with the pointed tip of the feeler pick. I'd say you got lucky and the key profile is probably kind of similar to the shape of the backside of your feeler pick.

Some locks are just hard to pick and you may have one of them. Lifting pins pin by pin can be tough on some locks. When manufacturing tolerances are tight, locks sometimes just don't want to yield. Don't let it discourage you. Try another lock, you might have more luck.

Here's something that made my feeler picks more useful: I filed a very small notch in the "pointy end" so the notch will fit right on the tip of each pin. It helps me get on the pin and stay on each pin.

Other than that, light tension, and patience is all you need.

[Squelchtone]

OK. So. I'm not exactly sure how to phrase this, because I'm not well versed in the lockpicking jargon. So I made a diagram. XD
[img-]http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd72/APONI/pcikquestion.jpg[/img]
When I say "Curvy end," I don't mean the handle. I mean the part where, on many diagrams the pick would look upside down. The curve.

strange things sometimes happen, for instance, George Bush being elected twice... but as someone else said, it was probably luck.

Are you using home made picks? If so, your hook tip might be too high and you are overlifting your pins. Or, you could be putting the pick into a very small keyway like the kind on the back of a Master combination lock, which norally requires slim-line picks, with thinner profiles of the usual hook and snake shapes we are used to.

To some the bottom line is, open the lock, no matter how you do it. I've definately used my picks unspide down on purpose to see if the key bitting (the peaks and valleys) could somehow be duplicated by inserting my W style pick upside down into the keyway.

When you are picking, are you diong light tension? hard tension? are the pins staying up when you use the tip of the hook? or are they all falling down after you press them up? I remember when I started I used too much tension, and I even bent tension wrenches and my finger would go white from pressing so hard.

good luck, keep practicing,

Squelchtone

[Aponi]

The lock I am using is a No 3 Masterlock, and it has no combination.
I want to call it a "normal" padlock,
but I think there is more to what defines "normal" than what I know at the moment.
And my picks come from SouthOrd.
I don't feel that I have a good enough understanding of all of this just yet to actually make my own picks.

The key does not have any big, scary ridges like some of the keys on this website do... No, I think it's a very simple pin configuration. Still, I'm not entirely sure.

I was DEFINITELY using way too much tension. Jimb says so, too, and I'm sure he's right. And yes, when I put the pins up, sometimes they stay up and sometimes they come back down, very loosely.

I wonder if this has to do with the fact that I'm not yet 100% sure where the pins ARE exactly... They're in the lock, I feel them, but I'm not sure if I'm pushing them well. One of the threads here talked about putting tape on a plug of key pins. I should try that... It is a good idea.

Maintanance Guy, that is a GREAT idea. Then, I would be able to tell if my pick is actually ON the pin, or just touching it.

Thank you sooo much, Squelchtone and maintenance guy. You are AWESOME.

[Trip Doctor]

Your pic of the lock is actually a bit off. The 'cuts' where the key pins and driver pins meet should be below the shearline (unless something, like a key, has been inserted into the lock). You probably realised this, but just in case you didn't .

And yes, when I put the pins up, sometimes they stay up and sometimes they come back down, very loosely.

Unless you're applying too much tension, all the pins that you raise with your pick should come down 'loosely' exept one. That one is the bindingpin. That's the pin you should try to set, as that's the pin that's taking all the tension at this point. After you set that one, another one will bind. So if more than one pin is 'not' coming back down 'loosely', then you're using too much tension. Ignore the pins that 'come back down loosely'; once you get to the one that doesn't and feels like it's 'stuck', that's the binding pin.

[Aponi]

Thank you SOOO much for your help.

I'm sorry, but I am going to bed.
I definitely have a tension problem, though. And it seems the longer it takes for me to pick the lock, the more tension I push.

Good night.

[Gordon Airporte]

Honestly, there are all kinds of stupid ways you can pick a Master #3. The upside-down hook thing works on other locks, though - I have a brass Brinks where it's the fastest way to pick it.
For a beginner, getting the #3 open isn't so much the point - it's doing it in a controlled manner where you know what's going on in the lock at each step.
Also, most people call that pick profile a hook, but we all know what you mean.

[Wrenchman]

Hi Beff, Welcome to Lockpicking!

Don't worry about your jargon, we all know what you mean, we've been
there too!

You call your pick a "feeler pick", that's a pick with almost no hook on it!
(1-2mm)

A "small hook" has slightly more hook length on it! (3-4mm)

And a "long hook" is more or less like the one you have painted! (5-6mm)

Sometimes it's more easy to pick a lock with the pick upside down, that's
why different types of picks were invented!

Also don't neglect that psychology can be playing with you, you think you
can't, and therefore you can't, then you turn the pick around, and with
renewed faith, you're able to pick the lock!

On the other hand, telling yourself that "hey I know I can pick this lock"
can give you problems too!

I think being humble, when it comes to lockpicking, is the way to go!

Other people may have other opinions!

So back to the topic, what pick are you "really" using and where
do you put your tension wrench with that self same pick?

Oh, and I've heard that you should sand and polish those SouthOrd's

Btw. I recommend that you make your own pick's, it gives you a better
understanding, let your mind play, explore the pickstyle world!



Wrenchman

[Afisch]

Rather than aiming for having the lock picked (which is the easiest thing to aim for) try to aim for always knowing what is currently happening inside the lock, which pin is bound, which pin is set etc. Making it more of an exploartion of a lock.

Once you know the binding order of a lock it becomes far easier to consistantly pick an easier lock.

[Aponi]

M'kay...

I tried to measure it. I think it's between 2 and 3 mm. I'd take a picture of it for you, but I do not own a digital camera. *nudge toward Santa Claus* I'm not sure if it is actually a feeler pick or a small hook. I tried to look it up on Southord, where I purchased them, but it didn't really say... Looking at other curvy picks from this site, I guess the hook isn't all that big. It doesn't really start to curve until almost to the end... I think it's a feeler pick. I really do.


I think I've found the right amount of tension, now. I can't believe how much easier it is to pick with less pressure! If I pay attention, I can actually feel the pins doing what they do. I always thought the binding pin was supposed to be really hard to push up. That's not how it's supposed to be, because I'm not supposed to put all this stress on my pick. It just has more feeling with the pick... One can feel it stronger than the others.

I have good news and bad news. The bad news is that I bent my pick today. *sheepish grin* I didn't realize I did this until I set it on the table. I slightly warped it. But the good news is that I think I'm getting the hang of this. I picked the lock today after school, WITH THE NORMAL SIDE OF THE PICK! XD I wasn't at home, so I didn't come to celebrate it with you. And then, I did it again. And again. And again. I can't seem to leave it alone. I want to keep turning the plug. (Please bear in mind that I'm a rather obsessive person. I know what I just wrote seems weird. It is strange, but it's normal for me. I am not... addicted? mesmerized? stimming? crazy? I just like it.)

I can pick now. For real. Wrenchman, I don't know if this is a psychology thing, because it's not so much of a "I can NEVER do it" opposed to "I canNOT but in the future I will." BUT I am biased towards myself, so I can't really say for sure.

I put the tension wrench in the keyhole, at the opposite end of the pins, where there is a ward.
Right here...



The idea of making my own picks both excites me but daunts me. It seems like a difficult task, because if I don't have all the fine-tuning of picking down, how do I know what I do and do not want in a pick? I have a feeling that I'm going to make a totally awesome but totally worthless tool...
Exploring is not a bad idea, though...
Experiment... So many discoveries by accident and by the blind.
And it's not like I'm going to attempt something that I haven't a clue about. Hypothese may be guesses, but they're based on something...
Okie. I will do that. I will create my own "homebrew." XD I promise.

Afisch, I think the binding order on the lock I've been toying with is 3, 4, 1, 2. And that is a good plan. I shall do that, but that doesn't mean I won't stop celebrating the picking of the locks each time I accomplish it.

Thank you sooo much for your help. Let us celebrate the picking of the #3. XD

[Wrenchman]

I'm not sure if it is actually a feeler pick or a small hook.

Nevermind that now, the important thing is that you can lift one pin at a
time, if you're SPP that is!
Also, I might have a different view about what a feeler and a small hook is!


According to the description this is a feeler pick, but to me it's a small
hook, my feeler is much lower


My feeler pick!
Don't get fooled by the size, it opens 95% of all the padlocks,
in less than 30 sec.

I put the tension wrench in the keyhole, at the opposite
end of the pins, where there is a ward.

Ok me too, but you see, there might be a small problem here with the pick/
wrench combination, cuz the wrench takes away the space of the pick!
Unless the feeler is very low, try a top wrench!

I think it's between 2 and 3 mm

Is that with or without the pick-base itself?



Wrenchman

[Afisch]

I think what they have classed as a feeler has quite alot more hook on it thanmy short hook, which is closer to what you have as a feeler pick. Then again mine is post being sanded.

I started almost only using the short hook. Now I mainly use a long hook, but it doesn't seem to have much more of a hook on it then 3mm, so who knows...

[Aponi]

...you can lift one pin at a
time, if you're SPP that is! ...

I can lift one pin at a time. But what is SPP? Single Pin Picking? (That would make sense. XD)

My feeler pick is VERY SIMILAR to the first picture. In your definitions, it is definitely a small hook. And I don't think that the tension wrench is taking away space for the pick, because there is a groove that doesn't let my pick go below the tension wrench. I put the tension wrench on one side of the groove, and the pick is on the other side.

Umm... I think it is with the pick base, but I'm not sure. How I measured it is that I placed the pick on the ruler, the bottom part of the pick aligned with the 0mm. Then, I measured where the pick ended.

like this; (gee, I love paint, don't I?) ok, The ruler looks like my pick is half-way up it. ;S That is not at all the case. BUT, I think you get the picture? (No pun intended.)




I wish I had a scanner. I could just scan and show-and-tell. But I think it is a small hook classified as a feeler. It has a small hook, not too small, but a small hook.

[Aponi]

EDIT:

...when you are first learning forget raking, get down the basics of SPP or single pin picking before you try to use a rake...

Okie. XD I got it. I'm sorry. SPP= Single Pin Picking.

[Trip Doctor]

I always thought a feeler pick was a pick used for SPP, whether it be a long hook, short hook, diamond...