Pick Resistant Padlock?

[mercurial]

I can understand how having no springs in any of the cylinders might make picking easier. However, wouldn't having springs in most, but not all of the cylinders make picking more difficult? Especially if the lock is make with loose tolerances.

What makes you think that not having springs in a few of the chambers would make picking harder?

As I see it, each chamber lacking a spring is going to make the lock easier to pick, because each such stack will stay set at the sheer line much more easily, as it doesn't have a spring pushing down trying to reset it - so the lock will be much more forgiving of lack of tension control.

...Mark

[raimundo]

You could make a practice lock with no springs and try it, or you could make a lock with springs adjustable so that you could add pressure, and thereby difficulty as you move up a level.

PICK RESISTANT means they put wards in the keyway

[dwkbb]

This lock was one that I had the most difficulty picking. As I said in earlier posts, I could open it by raking, but not by pin by pin picking. I was approaching it assuming that there were security pins installed, but this didn't turn out to be the case. I was just trying to understand why I had such a problem with this lock and the lack of some springs made me wonder. It probably is not only the lack of springs in every cylinder, but other factors in the lock's construction and my technique. I figure that the primary problem was over-setting some of the pins due to what I percieved as lack of feel of the pins. With varying of the tension, I figured that springs pushing against the pins give more tactile information as to when the pins are set, particularly with a relatively poorly built lock. Anyway, I appreciate the replies. It's all part of continued learning.

[gotta]

Locks will pick harder if there's a stuck or missing spring. The same principle applies if using a key. If the lock's upside down, forget it. Before I pick a lock I lube it with Triflow and use a feeler pick to verify spring function in each chamber. I don't want to waste time on an upside down lock with a missing spring. I use another bypass method or reach for the rotary pick.

[Beyond]

Don't confuse pick resistant and pick proof. Just because its resistant doesn't mean you can't pick it.

[dougfarre]

Locks will pick harder if there's a stuck or missing spring. The same principle applies if using a key. If the lock's upside down, forget it. Before I pick a lock I lube it with Triflow and use a feeler pick to verify spring function in each chamber. I don't want to waste time on an upside down lock with a missing spring. I use another bypass method or reach for the rotary pick.

Why people keep saying the locks will "pick harder" if there is a missing spring! This is simply not true! Now if the lock is upside down and there is missing spring, then this may be true..

And what is a rotary pick? Are you referring too the EPG?

[yoyoboy]

And what is a rotary pick? Are you referring too the EPG?

That would be our good old friend "DeWalt"

[BorisTheSpider]

I have to agree that the lack of springs would logically make it easier to pick, as there's no resistance other than gravity keeping the pins below the shear line. However, I also have to agree that is has to be more difficult from a tactile standpoint because the feeling of a pin with no spring and a set pin is going to be pretty much the same, especially to someone new to picking.
While it makes picking easier (as long as it's not upside-down), it makes feeling your way in and understanding what's going on more difficult.

[Afisch]

You would treat the pin with no spring the same as you would a set pin and leave it alone, so in that way, they are the same as a set pin.

[Aponi]

I'm really sorry, but I don't see how some missing springs, but not all, would make it easier to pick...
Because when you don't have springs in the lock, then how can you feel which pin is binding and which pin is not? If you haven't picked that pin yet, but it feels soo loose because there is no spring pushing down, then wouldn't you assume that you'd already picked that pin? How do you know if you've already picked the pin if there's no pressure?
Thank you soo much, in advance. I think I'm missing the point.

[nekret]

Consider the following algorithm
1. Insert pick to back of lock
2. feel pin, if binding go to 3, else go to 4
3. set pin, if lock opens then done
4. move pick forward 1 pin
5. if pick is out of lock, goto 1, else go to 2

We don't have to know what pins are already set since we are only dealing with pins that are binding. We continue to set binding pins until there are no more binding pins in which case the lock will open (assuming a pin is never over set). That being said, locks with broken springs can sometimes be a pain because the key pin can get pushed up too far before it binds and will stay there due to a lack of spring pressure. The simple work around for this is to tap the lock just prior to setting a pin so that any pins that aren't binding and have yet to be set and are above the sheer line will fall back down.

I'd argue that missing springs really doesn't make it more difficult or easier, just a different procedure.

[Afisch]

Apologies for my previous post, I thought that there were no driver pins or springs, just loose key pins.

I imagine you would be able to feel if you had picked it, by the feeling when it becomes hard to lift (when it comes in contact with either the shearline, or, far higher up, the top of the bible).

[LeeNo]

Because when you don't have springs in the lock, then how can you feel which pin is binding and which pin is not?

Even without driver springs, the binding pin will be stuck or harder to move.

If you haven't picked that pin yet, but it feels soo loose because there is no spring pushing down, then wouldn't you assume that you'd already picked that pin? How do you know if you've already picked the pin if there's no pressure?

If that pin had already been picked you wouldn't be able to lift the key pin past the shear line. It would get blocked by the shell as it passed the shear line.

[Aponi]

It would get blocked by the shell as it passed the shear line.

*slaps head* Of course!
Thanks. XD