Raking - it isn't blunt-force trauma. You still need finesse

[LeeNo]

I never said that fast raking didn't have a place.

That's fine, but saying:

Raking is very rarely a matter of sticking the rake in the lock with no tension, applying slight tension and then ripping the rake out of the lock as fast as you can while applying a little bit of upwards force.

is my main gripe. You can rake as fast as you possibly can on cheap and wafer locks and opening would be anything BUT rare.

I guess then that your initial argument has been weathered down to the word "rarely" and your definition of "cheap and wafer locks".

This means that statistics are needed. What percentage of locks out there are "cheap and wafer locks".

If the numbers come back against me, then I would offer this additional disclaimer (one that I had thought would be assumed by any member here): I am not talking about office filing cabinets or other locks.

[Beyond]

I guess then that your initial argument has been weathered down to the word "rarely" and your definition of "cheap and wafer locks".

It hasn't. I'm just tired of repeating myself to all the wimps who come out of the wood work to whine about me "flamming you". I can't say it many more ways.

This means that statistics are needed. What percentage of locks out there are "cheap and wafer locks".

The vast majority. Perhaps you've heard of Kwikset?

If the numbers come back against me, then I would offer this additional disclaimer (one that I had thought would be assumed by any member here): I am not talking about office filing cabinets or other <censored> locks.

Name a lock that can't be picked via "FAST" raking and I'll pick it, tape it, and upload it via "FAST" raking.

[Diphoration]

Raking is very rarely a matter of sticking the rake in the lock with no tension, applying slight tension and then ripping the rake out of the lock as fast as you can while applying a little bit of upwards force.

is my main gripe. You can rake as fast as you possibly can on cheap and wafer locks and opening would be anything BUT rare.

I believe the rare was applying to "ripping" more then "fast" in his quote. Actually, if you take up a dictionnary and look up for ripping, you'd find something similar to this "–verb (used with object) 1. to cut or tear apart in a rough or vigorous manner: to rip open a seam; to rip up a sheet." Sounds pretty barbaric to me and that's pretty much how people do it on Youtube and I believe that it is what LeeNo was agaisn't.


P.S.

I've yet to resort to name calling or offensive words.

What the fu....ck are you reading?

[Beyond]

I believe the rare was applying to "ripping" more then "fast" in his quote. Actually, if you take up a dictionnary and look up for ripping, you'd find something similar to this "–verb (used with object) 1. to cut or tear apart in a rough or vigorous manner: to rip open a seam; to rip up a sheet." Sounds pretty barbaric to me and that's pretty much how people do it on Youtube and I believe that it is what LeeNo was agaisn't.

Oh dear god. Now you resort to semantics to validate any sort of argument you or anyone against me has had. This is so stupid now. Forget it, I am done carrying out this argument. I'm done with this board.

That literally takes the cake as the stupidest logic I have ever seen employed on a forum of educational discussions. I seriously, seriously hope you're still in high school with that kind of reasoning. If you are any older than 18, please, kill yourself.

*shakes head*

[LeeNo]

Name a lock that can't be picked via "FAST" raking and I'll pick it, tape it, and upload it via "FAST" raking.

I was never making blanket statements about particular models of locks. I was talking about individual locks. And I wasn't talking about stupid filing-cabinet locks.

Are you saying that every single lock of a specific series - regardless of the pinning - is rippable as long as any single lock from that series is?

If you aren't saying that then you recognize that individual locks within a series might be resistant to a certain technique.

But if you believe that, then why would you suggest that you could rip a non-rip-able lock? (the text I quoted)

I recognize that this question will never be answered by you because you have already said:

Forget it, I am done carrying out this argument. I'm done with this board.

But I just thought I'd throw it out there...

[Timtam]

Forget it, I am done carrying out this argument. I'm done with this board.

Good. Don't come back. You are not wanted here.

[dougfarre]

Beyond, you may have valid points in regard to some of the points made in this thread, but your delivery is a little harsh. You weren't actually debating over anything he wrote in this article! He never suggested anywhere, except possibly in the title, to change the definition of raking to his more subtle version, like you continuously suggested. There many members that may have benefited from LeeNo's initial post, regardless of weather or not all his suggestions part of the norm. You are not an expert here, no one really is.

As for LeeNo, go back and read what you wrote about his initial post, and what you could have wrote instead that wouldn't have been more sincere. Members on this forum will treat you with the respect you deserve (since you are obviously knowledgeable about the subject) when you debate in a polite manner.

[raimundo]

Expert, X mathmatical symbol for unknown. spurt, a drip under pressure.

[rontgens]

All these posts have helped my raking technique no end, especially the vulgarity as I use that like this, f*ckin thing won't open f*ck this arghh I wish you'd die you stupid lock arghhhhhhh *throws lock out window*! Thanks guys

[dougfarre]

Hahaha.

Ray whats Kafka?

[freakparade3]

Kafka

[gotta]

I've read this entire thread now, and there are valid points on both sides. The only constant in lock picking is if you think you finally have something figured out, prepare to have it proven wrong. There are general methods I use for different locks, but honestly, nobody can say this method is right or wrong. I love the purist attitude of single pin picking. It could be the purest art form of lock picking.

Frankly, when I'm backed up a few calls, I'll walk up to a kwikset or schlage f series, give it a few hard rips and collect my fee. When you do this for a living, the purest attitude goes out the window. You learn to do what works the fastest. I don't know how many locks I've opened with a single stroke, others just a few more. When raking doesn't work after about 4-5 trys, I'll maintain tension and switch to a hook or half diamond. I'll often turn over an s style pick and use it for a type of hook. If that doesn't work, I'll use my pick gun which if nothing else is great for freeing up sticky pins. Yeah, there are times I'll start out with my pick gun.

There are some general things you just learn from experince. I rarely use a hook pick on a wafer lock, especially on a car as they tend to get stuck in a wafer. The depth and spacing is such that you rarely need a hook. My advice to new lockpickers is always not to get too set in your ways and to try everything. There is no right or wrong. Even if a guy offering advice or experience is harsh, rude, whatever, gleen what you can and move on. Debating raking for 4 pages is a waste of bandwidth, especially given that after you've picked so many locks, you can use a bunch of methods and obtain the same result. This has been an entertaining thread though.

[LeeNo]

As for LeeNo, go back and read what you wrote about his initial post, and what you could have wrote instead that wouldn't have been more sincere.

LOL! I was suggesting YouTube vids aren't necessarily the best place to get your info. And you seem to agree. Yet YouTube vids DO show raking being done very fast and hard and crudelt. Ooooops! You have just created a paradox. In science, that usually means that the hypothesis was full of road apples.

I said this worked well for the Masterlocks I've tried.

But thanks for allowing your wonderful personality to shine on this thread.

I actually wouldn't change word of that post (except to fix the typo) . If he wishes to see his personality as an insult then that is up to him. And he did create a paradox by insulting me for watching youtube and then referring to youtube as showing how raking works (I think "paradox" is more polite that "hypocrite").

Members on this forum will treat you with the respect you deserve (since you are obviously knowledgeable about the subject) when you debate in a polite manner.

Was this directed at me (it was in the same paragraph as "As for Leeno...")? If so, I have never meant to suggest I am particularly knowledgable about anything related to this hobby yet. If not, I agree with you 100%

[dougfarre]

You didn't have to suggest that you were knowledgeable, your post suggested it for you. But otherwise, your attitude towards Beyond is still unnecessarily defensive. If your going to write a guide, or a suggestion, or even a tip, then there is going to be someone who disagrees with you. Right?

[LeeNo]

But otherwise, your attitude towards Beyond is still unnecessarily defensive.

Perhaps so. I could have just let it go.

If your going to write a guide, or a suggestion, or even a tip, then there is going to be someone who disagrees with you. Right?

Most likely.