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Having a bit of trouble...

Picked all the easy locks and want to step up your game? Further your lock picking techniques, exchange pro tips, videos, lessons, and develop your skills here.

Having a bit of trouble...

Postby warhawkhalo101 » 12 Dec 2007 16:35

Hello, I am a bit new to the scene, but I have read up on all the guides, and understand pretty well how a lock works, what the pins are, etc... After a little consideration, I decided to buy a lock pick set, the SouthOrd MPXS-20 Piece set.

Well, heres the problem: I have a Master Lock No. 8109DSG bike cable lock, and I truly cannot get a feel for the pins. I cannot tell when it is set, or even which pin is he binding pin, or even how much tension I should be applying on this lock.

This is the simplest lock I could find right now, until I head to the store to pick some easier locks up :P

I am currently looking for diagrams, but its not looking good... Any help on tips could be helpful. I have read the guides posted, but its a bit tough unless I experience it before me or its demonstrated in front of me...
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Postby freakparade3 » 12 Dec 2007 17:50

This website should help you. http://deviating.net/lockpicking/topics.html

There are alot of animations that show you what is doing on inside of the lock. Mosr of the pictures are clickable to start the animations.
Image
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Postby LeeNo » 12 Dec 2007 18:28

Thanks for that link FP!!!! Fantastic site - lots of info - a great overview presented very well.
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Postby warhawkhalo101 » 12 Dec 2007 23:36

That helps quite a bit! Gives me an idea of what is going on.

The question still remains for me: How much torque is too much? How gentle do I have to be with the pins so I do not overset them?
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Postby Safehands55 » 12 Dec 2007 23:50

Most cases if you think you are using to much pressure you are.. It helps me to tie a rubberband to the bottom of my tension wrench and pull it a quarter in to half inch. What picks are you using?
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Postby LeeNo » 13 Dec 2007 0:09

warhawkhalo101 wrote:The question still remains for me: How much torque is too much?
Think of it like this - what is the minimum amount of force you need to apply to open the lock with a key?

It really isn't very much. Even though most of us probably crank the key as hard as we can every time we open a lock, the minimum amount of force needed to actually turn the key is a lot less than we routinely use.

Now consider that a tension wrench gives you the advantage of leverage. A key gives very little leverage - your gripping point is very close to the center of rotation - and the only leverage is the width of the key handle. A tension wrench is much longer and gives you an incredible boost in leverage. This means that a much smaller force is needed to rotate the plug (albeit over a longer arc).

So what sort of resistance are we trying to overcome with the tension wrench? First, you need to overcome whatever spring force is used in the design of the lock. Some locks have a lot of resistance because the plug is attached to a tension lever or spring. If you don't apply enough force to overcome that, the plug will never turn.

Beyond that, you only need to overcome the friction between the plug and the shell and that is miniscule. Take a re-pinnable lock apart and rotate the cylinder. There is almost zero resistance. That is how much force you should apply to the tension wrench (in addition to whatever force is needed to overcome the "springiness" built into whatever lock brand you are working on).

warhawkhalo101 wrote:How gentle do I have to be with the pins so I do not overset them?
Oversetting is the result of lifting a pin too high - not on how much force you use with either your tension wrench or with your pick. Avoiding oversetting pins is a finesse issue vertically rather than a force issue horizontally (assuming single pin picking).

I bought a Master #142 tonight and was able to pick it on about my 5th try (total time less than 5 minutes). And, like almost every other lock I have picked, after I softened my approach and slowly, lightly and deliberately applied tension while really being aware of feeling the pins it opened.

You only need to be as gentle as necessary for you to truly feel what the pins are doing.
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Postby warhawkhalo101 » 15 Dec 2007 0:25

Well, did some research on the lock... and this is what I found on the description:

"Integrated keyed locking mechanisms for strong pick resistance"

Security Pins?

Dont know, but I cannot feel the driver pins lock or click, no sound, but I have at times noticed a few above the sear line, so I was doing something right... But this seems a little too hard for me, seeing as I just started :P

Going out tomorrow to pick up some simple Master Lock padlocks, the little ones. They have some of the warded padlocks, but they dont look too appealing right now... I need simple to start on... I think I have the concept and visualization, just not a proper lock to actually get working.
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Postby LeeNo » 15 Dec 2007 12:52

warhawkhalo101 wrote:Going out tomorrow to pick up some simple Master Lock padlocks, the little ones. They have some of the warded padlocks, but they dont look too appealing right now... I need simple to start on...
Don't buy a warded lock - they aren't "pickable" because they don't use pin/tumbler system.

An easy first lock to pick is a Master #5. Check the key before you buy it - you don't want a key with a very deep first cut.
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Postby warhawkhalo101 » 15 Dec 2007 15:31

I picked up a No. 3, and picked it on my first try in about 15 seconds, and I thought it was a fluke... I have done it about 20 times, and I get it every time.

I like this lock, I can actually feel the pins, visualize what is happening, and its a confidence booster lock to make me feel good :lol: Either way, its a good starting point. I used your post LeeNo about the tension, and it has helped a lot as I keep repeating the lock to make sure I understand it, and try to find a comfortable picking technique.

I will be off later to find a bit harder of a lock, any suggestions?
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Postby freakparade3 » 15 Dec 2007 16:23

warhawkhalo101 wrote:I will be off later to find a bit harder of a lock, any suggestions?


Get yourself a deadbolt. You can repin it to make it easier/harder. Add security pins and such. It's a good investment because when you get really good at picking it you don't need to go buy a new lock, just change the pins.
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Postby warhawkhalo101 » 15 Dec 2007 22:16

Never thought of that - I will look into it.

Thanks!
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