Task Force 40mm Warded Steel Padlock

[niksoft]

To diffuse confusion of anyone who is like "haven't we discussed this a gazillion times" these are the locks i am talking about:


http://images.lowes.com/product/071649/071649226021.jpg


Task Force Model: 8596TCCLWS (or so Lowes claims http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=p ... lpage=none )

Lock is about the size of an average Master #3, although so far i have not found as simple of a way of opening it as the Master #22. You can't just take the key, grind it down and then release the shackle with the tip, it seems to be a little bit more advanced then your simple warded lock, but only a little

Ok, so first thing i tried doing to that lock was to take one of the keys, grind it down to make a universal pick for task force locks. It didnt work and i decided to do some investigative work to figure out how this particular lock, locked. I opened it with the key, taskforce makes it look like only one side of the shackle is locked, but upon playing with it further (and by playing i mean taking out the key, and pushing down on the shackle) i found out that indeed task force locks both sides of the shackle, so the game was on to shim this stupid lock and get it all over with.

I first made a long shim for the left side (which is the side of the shackle that does not exit the body of the lock when opened) and gave it a go only locking that one side, it seemed to have worked, but it seemed a bit too much of a pain, so i decided to leave it for later (i will continue attempting to shim it today, see if i can get it to work)

So now i just wanted to pick the lock. i noticed that the "keyway" is basically restricted with a brass insert with the "wards" cut into it, multi tool and some prying later, i removed the plate all together (hint here, try to make a whole in the middle first (give the plate a washer shape), and then take one of the sides with the pliers and pull i towards the middle, the circle will brake, and you can pull that thing cleanly and completely out of the lock).

Now it was time to see how i could open the darn thing. It seems that there are 2 wafers, well sort of wafers, that release the locking mechanism, one needs to be lifted, and with the key it is lifted by the "front" of the key (the side where the notches are). But there is also another thing that needs to be lifted, or actually pushed down and that happens with the back part of the key. So first thing to try out was to lift them individually, but that did not work because for some reason, just pushing down on the back wafer did not unlock the latch... approach that worked was when i used 2 picks, one to push up the first wafer, and one to push down the back one, and the shackle unlocked when one was lifted 1/2 way up and the other one was pushed down 1/2 way. I the grabbed some wire and made a little tool to open this particular lock, i want to go pick up another one and see what kinds of differences i will see between the two...


Sorry for extremely long run-on sentences (tis the way i write though). Also if anyone has played with those and found other ways of opening them, please let me know, i'll give it a go. And thirdly, once i get the second lock and figure out a way to pick both with the same tool, i will post pictures, tool, etc, for now, i'm at work so.

Also i will try putting upward pressure on the shackle and see if that maybe will allow me to not have to manipulate the "pins" or "wafers" or whatever you want to call them.

Lastly, if i used wrong terminology, please correct me, i am not very new to lock picking, i dont have a lot of experience, i know the basics and techniques though, i have taken about 6-7 months off, but just decided to get back into it as a more prominent hobby, so, excited, first post here

And i'm getting an lk1200 this weekend for my beginning lock collection, yaaay [/img]

[Jaakko]

Welcome to the site and congrats on a *very* informative first post! Youu my friend are a rare type

Have you trid to disassemble the lock by grinding off the rivets? This way you could see exactly what is happening in the lock.

[niksoft]

Not Yet, its in works though. Partly why i want to get a couple of more of those locks too, so i can see how it works, and apply it on another lock to test my theories, my biggest one right now is i want to see if the position of pins changes from lock to lock, because that may just mean that i can make a key for all of those locks... so i'm stopping by after work today to pick up a couple of more, i will also probably pick up a few more padlocks too, i'll have to see what they have. Hell i may run out for lunch and get them...

Played some more with that lock last knight, share my findings, and i have answered a couple of my own questions

After about 5 minutes of attempting to pull on the shackle and disengage the lock one pin at a time, i came to a conclusion that it is not working, so then i went back and used the 2 pick method again, and it unlocked, which tells me that even when it seems that you release the first wafer, it still retains some spring pressure on the shackle that prevents it from just opening when you disengage the second wafer/pin deal... this would be so much easier with visuals..., i have plans to shoot an explanation video, once i fully figure this lock out myself, and also, unlike about 80% of lockpicking vids on youtube (which is just 1337 people opening the same locks that there are hundreds of explanations online on how to open (shim, pick, bump, make universal key, etc..)), this will be an original, i hope, because i have not been able to find anyone, on the net at least, that has released much info on this particular lock

Anyhow, lunch in 15 minutes or so, gonna run out get one more of those locks, then tomorrow i can grind down the pins and disassemble that lock to find if i can exploit it easier

P.S. i am already thinking of the next lock to tackle.... anyone working on kwikset "high security" lock ( http://www.kwikset.com/Products/default ... fault.aspx )?
Like seriously, off the top of my head already, there is a keyway, therefore you should be able to pick this lock given time, secondly, it's claimed to be "high security", sure you can have an 8 digit combination, sure they probably have 7 serrated or mushroom pins, what the hell is that thumb turn doing on the inside? like for example if someone was braking into a house, all they have to do is bring a saw, cut out an opening in the door, and shazaam they are in, just like that, and if you have a glass door... Well, i hope you have an alarm system that reports an entry in under 15 seconds, and a police department 35 seconds away.
that lock just does not seem to be all that "high security"...

[dougfarre]

P.S. i am already thinking of the next lock to tackle.... anyone working on kwikset "high security" lock ( http://www.kwikset.com/Products/default ... fault.aspx )?
Like seriously, off the top of my head already, there is a keyway, therefore you should be able to pick this lock given time, secondly, it's claimed to be "high security", sure you can have an 8 digit combination, sure they probably have 7 serrated or mushroom pins, what the hell is that thumb turn doing on the inside? like for example if someone was braking into a house, all they have to do is bring a saw, cut out an opening in the door, and shazaam they are in, just like that, and if you have a glass door... Well, i hope you have an alarm system that reports an entry in under 15 seconds, and a police department 35 seconds away.
that lock just does not seem to be all that "high security"...

What if it was a metal door, and there were no windows around? I guess we are more interested in lock security around here, rather then general security. But those points are ones that you have to consider when purchasing locks, or course. And the pin tumbler lock on that Kwickset is not what it seems. It is actually a high security lock. Also, I hope your ready to fork over about $200 just to play around with that lock, cause thats the running cost I believe.

[niksoft]

Doug, i absolutely understand that, don't get me wrong, i am not saying that its not a high-security lock, but i think one could find vulnerabilities in mostly anything, if they search hard enough. And I am, just like you, interested in whether or not there is on in the lock itself...

I mean i'm more of a computer security guy, I think of locks as encryption, and it's easier in a way to exploit a lock then an encrypted protocol, you can hold the lock, and play with it, take it apart and know how it works, find inconsistencies and exploit them to achieve the desired goal...

You sound like you have looked at those locks before, "high security" lock, and this has been discussed on this forum, can mean virtualy anything, and it will differ, between a Medeco 64s series in a FireKing UL Class 350 file cabinet lock (ooh i have some pretty crappy pictures of that wonderful contraption) and a Master padlock (and you have an even better idea of exactly what that means then i do ) So, what kind of "high security" lock are we talking about, is it like a Medeco cylinder or something like that inside that lock? I only had a chance to look at those briefly today, yeah they are about $150 or so, though i wouldn't mind having one of those on my front door (lazy and i carry a key inside my wallet, so its a pain to get out all the time)

Last thought though, I think it's worth mentioning, locks are very much dependant on physical security, what's the point of locking the door if you leave your windows open? You can have the most crazy setup on your door, like a Mas Hamilton X-09 with like a quad deadbolt setup, but if your hinges are on the outside.... (lol dont have a kaba mas lock, but we have a case of something like that going on at work actually, i laugh every day...)

Ooh, actually i'm not going to buy that lock yet, i have the ability to play with some ignitions coming up soon (my friend works at a big used bike shop, and over the past 10-15 years, he has acquired a few ignitions to say the least (because their procedure is, if key is lost, they replace the ignition), he has figured some interesting things out with some of them. So i dont know what the legality of posting the vulnerabilities in ignitions is, talking fairly popular bikes and atv lines here, so if someone can shed a little light, it will be great )

So i am planning to disassemble this warded padlock, and once i make a tool that will have the ability to open all of them, i'm going to play with some ignitions ( there is going to be a bit of info on this stuff, some of which i have already compiled, some of which is yet to come. It will be, especially for those of you who are locksmiths or work in repo and haven't dealt with bikes and atvs yet, even if you have, some of this stuff can help you, if you didn't know it already. Also this is not happening till 08, i want to make that a quality thread... )

[freakparade3]

As for ignitions we don't have discussions about auto related locks in the open forum. After you get into the advanced area post all you like!!

[niksoft]

excellent, now to get to 40 posts... ( do you think you will accept me into the advanced section? )

[Squelchtone]

excellent, now to get to 40 posts... ( do you think you will accept me into the advanced section? )

remember grasshopper. 40 "quality" posts which inform, help, and contribute to the growth and well being of this community, as well as showing personal growth in your abilities as a hobby lockpicker, and sound moral judgement to keep advanced information out of the wrong hands and to resist temptation while in the field, to pick locks not belonging to you.

see you Sunday, I'll bring your new Hi-Shear padlock.

Squelchtone

[dougfarre]

Yo niksoft. You are well on your way to 40 quality post, ignore squelchtone: he just likes to ramble. Kidding squelch.

The lock below the Smart Code keypad is the Kwickset Smartkey. Quite possibly the most sophisticated lock ever made ... Maybe not, but it is a very interesting lock. I have been able to successfully pick it only twice, and will talk with you about it for many hours if you have time. There are rumors of secret destructive bypass methods but I can't seem to figure out their source.

[niksoft]

Thanks squelch for those warming thoughts, the hi-shear lock (it is just such an awesome piece of art), and the rest of the locks you gave me to play with. Picked them all, except that abus lock, which still seems elusive, master #140 took about 45 seconds, that best cylinder maybe a couple of minutes and a flash light, though working on picking it so i can remove that cylinder, and the door lock didn't take all that long either... twas fun though

I also had some time to meet with a friend of mine, who gave me a few ignitions for my next project, and promised to bring some more ... all i am going to say in this section of the forum is, you guys wouldn't believe just how incredibly insecure some of these things are, i wonder why they even bother putting locks in, it would be more secure with a switch ... (no i will not say which ignitions i am playing with, no i will not release any info until i get into advanced section, yes the thoughts above is all you get )

Had some time to work on the Task Force warded lock again, also squelch got to see the work in action, but still no time to take the grinder to it, but i do promis that its coming, in the near future (few days maybe, i will try to do it today, so i can post pictures tomorrowish, but i have to see what i'm doing later)

Doug, I'd love to talk about that kwickset cylinder, especially for hours , thinking i could make that lock the third project, and i will add that kwickset lock to my humble, but growing collection, but not yet (cuz i'm poor for the time being), but hope one day to pick it (just like that medeco cylinder in the hi-shear anchor (squelch will get this one, but for those of you who have never seen the hi-shear lk1200, it weighs probably good 5+lb although more correct numbers will only be available after i weigh it, weight being the most likely the reason why that lock was taken out of service, but i'm not going to eat squelch's bread on this one, he's readying an article on this topic, soon))

oh, squelch has also seen a working tool for the task force warded lock, and he has shared some of his wisdom which lead me to some ideas on how to make a universal key (or 2 keys, dunno yet)

Anyways, i will keep you guys updated as i find out more about this lock, and decide what i'm going to do for "the master" key(s)

[killagorilla]

so this is my first post on any forums of this type. i have absolutely no background or experience in locks and ran across this site from a link on another sight and it looked interesting. last night i read thru a few of the general forum section postings and found alot of really cool info. i happened to have read a quick warded lock tutorial last night and though "wow that one looks easy and i bet i can do that"

so i stopped by lowes and bought 4-5 padlocks and a couple quickset cheapies, a front door set lock and deadbolt. i dont know all thier names and sizes and such yet but they are the simple stuff. and among them was this taskforce beauty.

i went gung ho with my new 3" bench top vice and 6" triangle file. i mounted and filed the key in fashion to allow the bypass of all the "gates" leaving the tip to disengage the lock. pulled it out slammed it in the lock turned freely and bam, it didnt open. so hmm this is a simple lock and you cant possibly mess it up.

so i came back to the forums and i read this posting who described the second release. and though informative i didnt get anymore out of it then that info. though i hated the idea i just threw 7 bucks away, it only came with 2 keys and i knew by filing the second one i risked the lock being keyless and if my new hobby went belly up the, lock would become landfill. so i decided to file it anyway but selectively this time, i would take sections out only as wide at the file and work my way down the shank of the key until it finally either matched my first ruined key or it opened the lock either way.

i filed a section out directly below the tip that i had was keeping in tack which released the end "gate" and reinserted the key only to find that it felt considerably more loose and had a good deal of wiggle to it, that it did not have before. when i turned it i found that this key also released the end, however it did not open the lock as apparently the release for the scondary is also very close to the end of the key. so i had 2 ruined keys.

i removed the second key and went back to the original filed key that had only the end tip on it, inserted it and held the shackle of the lock with pressure on it. turned and released the end. with pressure on the shackle it did move slightly forward allowing me to basically wedge it in place and keep the final gate open. i then worked the key outwards fishing for the secondary release. found it within seconds and voila, lock opened with the fully filed key.

so in less then 10 minutes i opened my first lock package, failed at initial attemp, gained new info, modified my ideas, used a little ingenuity, and picked my first lock. this shits fun.

anyway i know that i dont know anything yet, my terms and references are all way off, and that this success is trivial. but i enjoyed it nonetheless and maybe when i become smart i'll post a couple pics or even a video.

[niksoft]

As i said, its a simple lock, in fact i took one of mine apart yesterday, shot a video of how it works and now my friend is joining 3 pieces of the video i sent him yesterday together, hope he has the vid ready by later on so i can post it.

i actually have a tool that will open this lock without having to hold the shackle, pressure, nothing. In my experience (and i have been playing with a couple of these locks for a little over a week now) it seems that not every one of those locks can be opened using that method, yes i opened one of mine poping one side at a time, but it shouldnt be that hard, and also, i dunno why, but one of my locks is simply not allowing to be picked like that. I have had a pick for this lock, squelch won't let me lie, what i want to do is make a master key, one key that will work on all of those locks, like the master lock, no pressure on shackle, no need to know techniques, nada, just the key that will open all of those locks

I'll have one ready today, and as i said, i will post the vid as soon as my friend joins the pieces together, its not the best quality vid (what do you expect from a cvs camera, and 5 minutes spent setting it up and shooting it) but its certainly it shows the mechanism...

Killa, one thing tho, i have 2 locks and the wards on them are on different sides, so i am also working to compensate for that.... i have 3 keys left to make it happen, i think i got a good idea how i'm gonna make it happen