Laminated padlocks - newbie trap to avoid

[LeeNo]

I know this sounds really lame and really obvious but I'm sure it's happened to most of us here.

I just ran into it for the first time tonight. Another eBay lot just arrived in the mail. Three new padlocks for me to attack. They are laminated Master #3 clones ("Legend" brand).

Anyways, I picked first 2 in about 20 seconds each. The third one I could not get open for the life of me. I would get the first pin and feel the cylinder slip a tiny bit but then nothing.

I kept trying and trying - same result.

Then I noticed it - on this lock, the pins sticking out of the bottom of the lock were higher than on the other 2 locks! My tension wrench was being blocked by the flippin rivet pin!

Once I realized that, I switched to a tension wrench with a longer (whatever that part that goes in the keyway is called) and pulled it out far enough to clear the rivet pin and was able to open the lock mos-tic.

I know, it is a stupid thing to get jammed up on, but it might happen to you so this is just a friendly heads up

WHAAAASSSSSSSSSSSS UPPPPPP????

[freakparade3]

You are not alone.

[zsoutendijk]

thanks for the tip

i havent seen one of these before but good job solving the problem!

any pictures?

-Zack

[Eyes_Only]

That happened to me so many times when I first started picking. It still happens once in a while if I'm not paying attention.

This is the reason why I mainly use the flat tension wrenches made by Peterson. You either stick it in the keyway at the top or the bottom and you'll rarely ever run into obstructions outside the cylinder. Door lock or padlock.

[LeeNo]

thanks for the tip
i havent seen one of these before but good job solving the problem!
any pictures?

Not initially, but you talked me into it





I know this looks obvious, but if you are very intent on trying to feel the pins setting while applying very light tension you could be stuck behind a rivet pin and not notice it.

[josh0094]

i ran into this once.. the first day i got my new picks i couldent pick the easyist lock i had. i looked down and saw i was only pushing on a rivit...

[LeeNo]

i looked down and saw i was only pushing on a rivit...

*Rivit..... Rivet..... stop pushing down on me.... Rivit..... Rivet.....*

[josh0094]

lol rivet** my bad.. lol!!

[raimundo]

its not necessary to have 90 degree bends in the tensors, some people have intellectualized the problem and claim its somehow better, but its not. Do the experiment, try an 80 degree bend, it works as well or in the case of those rivets, better.

[LeeNo]

its not necessary to have 90 degree bends in the tensors, some people have intellectualized the problem and claim its somehow better, but its not. Do the experiment, try an 80 degree bend, it works as well or in the case of those rivets, better.

I know that at 90 degrees you can turn the cylinder with less force than at any other angle. But you may gain more benefits in the way of comfort and avoiding rivet pins than you lose by having to apply more force on the tension wrench.

[raimundo]

actually, if you really think about it, it just dosent make sense that the angle of the bend means anything, the tensor blade goes into the lock and exerts torsion, somewhere outside the lock, your finger is on the lever that communicates that pressure to the blade and keeps tension on the core. it matters that the tensor attaches to the core, it matters that your finger communicates pressure to that attachment. where and how the two are connected is entirely irrelevant. the lever could go north, south east and west but if it arrived at your finger tip two inches out from the core, you would get two inches worth of leverage. the actual geometry of how it gets from the finger to the core may be affected by flex in the metal, rivets in the way or door jams, but the only forces that count are the pressure, the lengh of leverage, and exactly nothing else.
do you believe that it matters whether its a 90 degree bend that takes you to the finger pressure, your not thinking it through correctly. the angle of the bend is irrelevant. the length between the core and the pressure is the only relevant thing to the torque, however some designs account for tulip handles and other things that get in the way. it is entirely irrelevant if your tensor comes straight out of the core for two inches and then bends 90 degrees, or if it comes out and immediatly bends 75 degrees, the pressure dosent' know or care the path of the lever. levers can be straight or as crooked as you care to make them they only count on length and pivot point, and pressure point. a lever twisted like a pretzel that does not flex will do better than a straight one that does. its irrelevant if the lever is round, square, hollow, straight crooked, just as long as pressure at point A is applied to pivot at point B and the distance between. not the direction that the piece takes to get there.

[LeeNo]

actually, if you really think about it, it just dosent make sense that the angle of the bend means anything

This isn't true. There is a continuum at work here and it is up to each individual picker where on that continuum they feel the most comfortable.

A 90 degree angled tension wrench allows the picker to turn the cylinder with the least amount of force (psi between the pickers hand and the tension wrench).

All we are talking about here is leverage. At a 90 degree angle you have the best leverage possible for using a tension wrench to turn a cylinder.

The more obtuse the angle gets, the more force you have to exert in order to turn the tension wrench. The extreme limit of this excercise would be a tension wrench with no bend in it at all.

Think how difficult it would be to use an unbent windshield wiper insert as a tension wrench. You would still softly press down on the tension wrench only now you aren't applying any rotational force to the cylinder whatsoever - you are merely driving the tension wrench into the bottom of the keyway.