Tiger Team (TV series) - organizations security testing

[JK_the_CJer]

Anytime before 1975, when Kevin purported his first exploit via it and it would still have to adhere to the current definition because anything different wouldn't matter, per my definition of "coined the term".

Sorry, but Mitnick making his first prank phone call does not qualify as him redefining the term "social engineering". Whatever the case, con games, etc.. have been around since the beginning of man. Just because we now call it something else, that does not mean that Mitnick was significant in the concept's evolution if, indeed, he did have anything at all to do with the new term. You are just playing a semantics game now and acting like a troll (which seems to be a trend for you).

[Beyond]

Sorry, but Mitnick making his first prank phone call does not qualify as him redefining the term "social engineering".

I'm not referring to a prank phone call.

I'm referring to his exploit of the LA bus system.

You are just playing a semantics game now and acting like a troll (which seems to be a trend for you).

Of course I'm playing semantics, we're trying to figure out a words origin and influence.

Semantics is defined as:

Semantics (Greek sēmantikos, giving signs, significant, symptomatic meaning, from sēma (σῆμα), sign) refers to aspects of meaning, as expressed in language or other systems of signs.

Can't think of a better description than what I am trying to accomplish.

[JK_the_CJer]

I'm referring to his exploit of the LA bus system.

Although I was only generally referring to you stretching Kevin's exploits to their extremes, I also do not consider his act of buying a punch marking the beginning of a renaissance of social engineering and certainly not defining it.

[Beyond]

Although I was only generally referring to you stretching Kevin's exploits to their extremes, I also do not consider his act of buying a punch marking the beginning of a renaissance of social engineering and certainly not defining it.

If you want to approach it as JUST buying punching cards, sure. But his social engineering of LA bus system officials is what ultimately gave him the idea.

Like I said, I'm open to anyone showing examples of people using the term "social engineering" in it's current context pre-1979. I've upped the date since you could classify his bus exploit as purely anecdotal. His social engineering attacks on DEC's network in 1979 is documented by multiple parties, including the state of California.

[JK_the_CJer]

If you want to approach it as JUST buying punching cards, sure. But his social engineering of LA bus system officials is what ultimately gave him the idea.

Like I said, I'm open to anyone showing examples of people using the term "social engineering" in it's current context pre-1979. I've upped the date since you could classify his bus exploit as purely anecdotal. His social engineering attacks on DEC's network in 1979 is documented by multiple parties, including the state of California.

You've loosened your stance ever so slightly. I find this...unsettling.

[Beyond]

If you want to approach it as JUST buying punching cards, sure. But his social engineering of LA bus system officials is what ultimately gave him the idea.

Like I said, I'm open to anyone showing examples of people using the term "social engineering" in it's current context pre-1979. I've upped the date since you could classify his bus exploit as purely anecdotal. His social engineering attacks on DEC's network in 1979 is documented by multiple parties, including the state of California.

You've loosened your stance ever so slightly. I find this...unsettling.

I didn't loosen it. I realized that it's pretty impossible to find any sort of document that could link his "social engineering" exploits to the LA bus system. Like I said, since it's based off of his statements, I realize that it's entirely anecdotal and I won't ask for the same courtesies that I didn't extend.

The 1979 DEC network case, however, has proof from multiple parties and is much, much more difficult to dispute as having never occurred or not containing "social engineering" tactics as we know them today.

[JK_the_CJer]

I didn't loosen it.

Anytime before 1975...

"...social engineering" in it's current context pre-1979.

Yes you did.

[Beyond]

I didn't loosen it.

Anytime before 1975...

"...social engineering" in it's current context pre-1979.

Yes you did.

I changed the circumstances in lieu of details, not my stance on needing proof.

[Legion303]

Perhaps he realized that a 12-year-old Kevin Mitnick might not have the required background in sociology to appreciate and borrow the phrase "social engineering." Maybe he would have at 16, but I'd say it's more likely he was reading TAP by then.

-steve

[dougfarre]

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[raimundo]

Legion remembers TAP magazine, that goes back to the early 70's at least, it was the phone phreaks magazine, possibly the forrunner of 2600 If anyone still has one of these magazines around, it probably mentions 'social engineering' in every issue, but also great for building 1970's era blue boxes, and red boxes, and silver boxes, etc. Get out your captain crunch whistle if you remember the early 70's, I think that is beyond someones semantic memory, as he hasn't the maturity to remember that far back. In fact its all anecdotal to him.

[Legion303]

OK, this is getting out of hand. For one thing, we've completely hijacked the original thread. For another, I'm capable of presenting facts without dispensing my usual sarcastic flames alongside, however cathartic it might be. Truce, Beyond? You say Kevin coined the phrase, I say he didn't, but we agree that he spread the term outside of hacker circles more than anyone else in the 90s (or we can get really pedantic and say it was the reporters, but let's not).

I do want to explore the etymology of the phrase further, so I started a new thread with an appropriate title. Anyone who wants to join in is welcome:

viewtopic.php?p=284459#284459

-steve