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Chinese bicycle lock

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

Chinese bicycle lock

Postby dewyatt » 5 Feb 2008 23:31

I was wondering if anyone knows how to remove the shell/cylinder from this chinese lock that came with a scooter.
I removed two stickers which revealed two holes but I don't really know what to do from here. Here are some pics:
Image
Image
Image
Image

Thanks for any help. I want to use this lock for practice (with less pins), even though it's a bit different from your every day US lock.
dewyatt
 
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Joined: 22 Jan 2008 1:36

Postby mh » 6 Feb 2008 0:27

I can see only one hole highlighted in your pictures?

Anyway, there will be a metal pin somewhere that holds the cylinder in, that pin would need to be drilled out. Just like on a padlock.
Could be hidden behind a sticker, or the surface polished and chrome plated and therefore not visible, and so on.
Good luck,
mh
"The techs discovered that German locks were particularly difficult" - Robert Wallace, H. Keith Melton w. Henry R. Schlesinger, Spycraft: The secret history of the CIA's spytechs from communism to Al-Qaeda (New York: Dutton, 2008), p. 210
Image
mh
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Postby dewyatt » 6 Feb 2008 0:32

There's one in the first picture and one in the third.

I think the third one is what you're talking about. That must be the metal pin you speak of. Thanks a lot for the quick answer! I will attempt to drill it.
dewyatt
 
Posts: 13
Joined: 22 Jan 2008 1:36

Postby dewyatt » 6 Feb 2008 1:06

Ah well i've drilled it. But i'm still having trouble removing the shell.
Is there any trick to this or is it possible I need to widen the hole a little to make sure i've gotten all of it?
dewyatt
 
Posts: 13
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Postby dewyatt » 6 Feb 2008 1:29

Nevermind! I got it!
There was a bit of the pin I had missed.
Thanks a LOT for your help!
dewyatt
 
Posts: 13
Joined: 22 Jan 2008 1:36

Postby dewyatt » 6 Feb 2008 2:57

Ok so now i'm stuck again.
How am I supposed to get the pins out without destroying this thing?
Video/Pic:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6534922749380638088&hl=en
Image
It looks like I have to drill another pin (the one in the 'track').
But if I do that, it's not going to be all that good for practicing it seems.
And i'm not sure I really need to drill it.
If you zoom in really close on the pin, it appears it may not be attached.
dewyatt
 
Posts: 13
Joined: 22 Jan 2008 1:36

Postby dewyatt » 6 Feb 2008 7:20

I'm still not sure on what to do.
But I was wondering if I correctly understand how this lock works.
It seems the flow of things is like this:
Image
Image
I believe when the key is inserted, the pins are pushed down to something which in turn pushes the perpendicular pins as well.
Maybe just a simple lever or similar device.
Can anyone confirm that this is the correct "flow" of things?
Does anyone know the name of this type of lock and/or have any information on its mechanics?
dewyatt
 
Posts: 13
Joined: 22 Jan 2008 1:36

Postby dewyatt » 9 Feb 2008 10:40

Well I guess I give up then.
dewyatt
 
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Joined: 22 Jan 2008 1:36

Postby mh » 9 Feb 2008 12:09

Are there perpendicular pins? I've never seen such lock and and I can't see it from the pictures either.

Anyway, you would obviously have to remove the pin 'in the track', maybe pull it out with pliers?
Or, if you drill it, you might be able to later replace it with a piece of brass rod.

Cheers,
mh
"The techs discovered that German locks were particularly difficult" - Robert Wallace, H. Keith Melton w. Henry R. Schlesinger, Spycraft: The secret history of the CIA's spytechs from communism to Al-Qaeda (New York: Dutton, 2008), p. 210
Image
mh
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Postby Jimmie » 24 Feb 2008 14:39

Jimmie
 
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Location: france

Postby greyman » 26 Feb 2008 17:33

Gday Jimmie. Well done, dude :)

For info, that lock seems to have a sidebar as well as regular pins.
Image
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Postby mh » 27 Feb 2008 0:29

Here are detailed pictures of a lock that seems to use the same system: http://www.antitheft-carlock.com/Antith ... nglish.htm

The pins appear to be one-piece with a sidebar, similar to wafer/sidebar concepts.

Cheers,
mh
"The techs discovered that German locks were particularly difficult" - Robert Wallace, H. Keith Melton w. Henry R. Schlesinger, Spycraft: The secret history of the CIA's spytechs from communism to Al-Qaeda (New York: Dutton, 2008), p. 210
Image
mh
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Location: Germany

Postby greyman » 27 Feb 2008 4:20

Thanks for the info, mh.

What I find really funny is that I have a very similar lock, for a bicycle, same keyway and everything, but there is one row of 4 pins in the middle and no sidebar. It takes under 30 seconds to pick open. What is funny is that this is basically a cheap clone of a cheap lock :)
Image
greyman
 
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early prototype?

Postby raimundo » 27 Feb 2008 11:06

Maybe that lock of greymans is an early prototype before the new one was invented. the club ad calls this a new moon lock. theres even a clickable link where its name is, I shoulda clicked that.
Wake up and smell the Kafka!!!
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Postby dewyatt » 21 Apr 2008 4:00

Boy am I late on this.
Well a few days ago I finally brought the drill out to separate the shell from the plug.

Good job on picking it Jimmie!
I tried and failed miserably.
Even my smallest pick (half diamond which I'm terrible with) can barely maneuver in that small keyway.
What kind of pick did you use?
I can't really tell from the picture.
Any tips?

This lock is pretty neat.
I'll share what I've learned about it so far.

Here are the main components of the lock.
Image

The first thing I noticed when I got this lock was the key.
Image
I had never seen one like it and I was very curious.
At this point I'm thinking maybe the lock is just a regular pin tumbler but with an odd keyway.
But once I got the shell+cylinder out of the lock I realized there were two sets of pins, perpendicular to each other.
Also, these pins were not the ordinary pins I'm accustomed to seeing.
Image

Let's look at the key pins:
Image
So these are like regular key pins but with some extra stuff attached.

There are two important facts to realize here:
1) The pins are all the same length (when I say pin here, I mean the entire object, not just the key pin).
2) The size of the gap between the bottom of the key pin and the attached "pin" is the same on all pins. However, the placement of this gap varies due to varying key pin sizes.
Image

Now for the other pins which I'll call side pins.
Image
These are all exactly the same, like regular driver pins.
You may notice something about these springs.
They have a larger diameter on one end for the "ball" point.
I don't know if they come like that or if it's just wear and tear.
Just for fun, here's the key pin springs (left) next to the side pin springs.
Image

Anyways, you've probably already figured out how this lock works.
But just in case:
When you depress a key pin you are moving the gap between the top and bottom portions of the pin.
The correct key will depress the pin to the point where its gap aligns perfectly with the side pins' hole.
This would then allow a side pin to slide into that gap.
When all the side pins can slide into their gaps, the plug can turn.
When you try to rotate the plug, you are trying to force the side pins into their gaps.
The ball part of the side pins rests on a slope.

One really cool thing about this plug is that you can pick it with your bare fingers!
Just depress a key pin all the way and then try to press the side pin for it.
Keep pressing in the side pin (with slight pressure) and slowly let the key pin up.
At some point the side pin will will slide into position and the key pin will not move anymore.
Be careful when doing this though because when you let go of the side pin, the key pin will probably fly away.
Plus these springs are super springy.

I shot a video real quick that sort of demonstrates the whole "gap" thing:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1712856425888871369&hl=en
dewyatt
 
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