chubb

[cred]

hi guys
just a quick question whats the difference in the chubb 3g and 3u locks? and do you have to have a different bs pick to pick all the different types
thanx
ray

[pinky]

the difference between the chubb 3G114 and the 3U114 is massive, its 2 different lever types, different bolts and different lever heights, the 3U114 is to act as a replacement in most pre cut doors, the 3G114 has a keyhole in slightly a different position as well.

the 3G114 and the new 3G114E are also different , the new E has open ended levers and a different bolt, making the drill point different though through the keyhole they are identical looking, in fact only 1 way to tell them apart.

pick wise, yes you do need different bs picks to pick the 3G114 and The 3U114.

the chubb 114 pin and cam will pick the following;
Chubb 3G114, 3G114E , 3K74 , 3K74E, 3G115 , 3G115E, 3K75 and 3K75E

the cost of this pick is £352.50

The chubb 3G110 pick is just for the chubb 3G110 and is £470.00

the chubb 3U114 pick is £235

a new 3G227 pick is being developed for the 7 lever chubb.

the curtain wheel pick is the only universal pick that will pick them all, but unlike the bs picks the curtain wheel isnt a 100% opening, where the bs picks are 100% in under 15 mins when practiced.

[pinky]

the thing to remember with the bs picks , is that they are designed 1 pick for 1 lock, chubb make a number of models , its about £1200 for all the chubb picks.

ERA now make 2 bs picks , the invincible and profit, the invincible pick is amazing and a 5 minute opening but the pick is £550, the profit pick is a 10 min opening and is £225.

the legge bs pick is designed just for the legge black 5641

some of the picks do open a number of other locks, though i couldnt go into which on an open site, but at least 5 of the picks open other lock types with a slight adaption.

bs picks are dear, but good , my chubb pick has actualy paid for itself 10 times over as have all my bs picks, they dont just open doors.

[mbell]

Ggrrr... Lever locks. Fantastic locks but they're one of the major contributing factors to me not starting a lockout business. I have most of the other tools and skill but unfortunately I would just draw a blank & drill when it comes to BS Mortice locks.

It seems obvious for these locks that the only way is to go on a course and fork out the huge initial investment in training and tools which will only work on specific locks (unless you're fantastic with lever wires and have been using them for a number of years).

[pinky]

when you say drill , i think its acceptable to drill a bs lock with a 2mm drill bit on any call out if you dont have the picks , remember on any call out just because they are locked out of the bs lock on the front door doesnt mean you cant open the back door or a window to avoid drilling, if you let this stop you from setting up then you never will set up as when you get hang of it the next generation will be out and you are back to square 1.

most lock outs are usually nothing more than rim cylinders , as you need the key to lock a mortice so have them with you, in the event of lost keys some would argue that its ok to drill as they want a new lock anyway, but there is still a hole in someones door , this is where i pick the lock, alter the lever combination and cut new keys direct from the pick, or change the lock, rekey the old lock myself clean it up and sell as a refurb.

my partner drills , but can drill any lock bar a chubb 114 left or right of door , with no internal damage, a quick repair to case and door and lock is still A1.

training may be an expense, ie a day on mortice locks and a day on bs picks and locks would be £480, but would give you the confidence you need to get started, the way to look at it is how many call outs is it , 5 at most.

if you choose the path of drilling thats fine also, but where do you drill ? the skill is being able to id the lock through the keyhole at 2am in the rain, no colour left on lock case as weathered, get the id wrong then you are stuck, drill the wrong place you are really stuck, what now ? Lock id is a real skill and one you cant work without unless drilling with 35mm drill bits.

[toomush2drink]

Ok im biased as pinky trained me but i have to agree its lock id thats the real challenge. I have a lock drill template kit that covers a lot of locks but it means nothing if you get the lock id wrong. I have some of the bs picks and at least with these if you get the id wrong theres no harm done, only your pride to the customer.
The BS curtain wheel pick is something to get though as it has a lot of use across the spectrum of bs locks with a lot of practice. I would rate this as the one tool to get (apart from the chubb 3g114 decoder) if you are starting out. At least give it a go so you get an edge and understanding of these fascinating locks.

[cred]

i have purchaced different bs locks over time,and started taking the front plate off and drilling so i could practice picking them,but then i read a few posts on burrs on the case and i thought thats a point,so i have tryed drilling without taking the case off as you would on a lockout and each time i do it that way i cant get the bolt to retract because of the burrs on the inside of the lock catching on the bolt or levers
any pointers
thanx
ray

[cred]

how come the 3g114 pick is said to br the 1 that is a must for you kit is it because the chubb 3g114 is a very common lock that everyone comes across

[pinky]

hi cred, il answer your PM here for all to see as its handy to know.

reference the chubb 3G114 and 3G114E , just looking through the keyhole it is impossible to tell the difference between the 2 locks, the only way to tell the difference is to take a small screwdriver and turn the curtain 90 degrees, you then look at the bottom of the keyway where the bit would go and you will see a big difference when you shine through your torch;

the chubb 3g114 , you will only see about 2mm of daylight at the bottom of keyway

the 3g114e , you will se 8mm of daylight at the bottom of keyway.

this is the only way to tell them apart, and you need to as the drill point is totaly different.

the reason a chubb 114 decoder is essential, is yes you will find 114's on most commercials, and the 114 family of locks are almost impossible to drill non destructively on the right hand side of the door.
they are very common, also the 3K74 is now a popular choice with many housing associations.

[pinky]

with reference to burs, every locksmiths nemesis.

always use sharp drill bits.

you should use 4 seperate drill bits though we dont, you should at least use 3 drill bits as follows;

use the hard plate drill bit to drill the wood and h/p, once through the h/p switch to a sharp hss bit, then for the last thou switch to a reamer bit for a totally clean bur free hole.

h/p drill bits are only good for 1 or 2 holes b4 you need to resharpen them, and for this you need a diamond wheel.

safe engineers will grind a normal hss bit to 170 degrees either side, this will drill h/p and make a bur free hole also, but the bits must be sharp.

black and decker piranah are excellent bits

[frollard]

i cant get the bolt to retract because of the burrs on the inside of the lock catching on the bolt or levers
any pointers
thanx

I think thats a matter of high speed drill, let the bit do the work. pushing hard will only cause those burrs...

[pinky]

you do need alot of pressure to cut the h/p, but once through swap to the hss bit and cut a hole with minimal pressure, though id still finish the last though with a reamer bit

[frollard]

that works well also - start small, then ream it larger to whatever size you need - good clean hole.

[pinky]

tip for those using 2mm drill template kit.

rather than drilling 2mm , use a 3mm bit, 2mm hard plate drill bits are £17 in the uk, 3mm hard plate bits are £3.

bit of money saving but otherwise useless info

[cred]

thanx guys great knowlage (and pretty quick too)