Are some locks just Too Easy?!

[Guitar_J]

I've been practicing my Pin-by-pin picking, and I've found on some locks that I don't have the chance to set each pin because it opens after I've set the 2nd one... I know this is from the motion of my picks in the keyway setting pins that I don't specifically mean to.

I try and try to stay away from the front pins as i set the back ones but I just can't keep from setting them... Is this a bad thing? It fristrates me... I don't just want to open the lock... I want to feel each pin set individually, then see the shackle pop open. Is this a sign of poor/sloppy picking? or just something that everyone runs in to? I know it's not necessarily a bad thing... since i am getting the lock open.. but is it bad that i can't control my picks well enough to not touch those first pins? or.. are some locks just too simple and its an effect thereof?

[Romstar]

You pretty much answered your own question.

Unless you really are lifting the front pins much too high. In some locks, actually more than I care to admit, the most important pins are in the rear. In others they are in the front. All the other pins are just needing a little encouragement.

The point is that in order to get the feeling of acomplishment you are looking for, you will need to start pinning up locks yourself. Many store bought cylinders are for the most part cheaply made. It's funny, really.

I just bought a slew of deadbolts, and key in knob sets the other day. They were Barricade by Yale, and they are keyed alike. Now, I don't just mean the deadbold and KIK are alike, I mean ALL of them are keyed alike. I bought them because the basic hardware is excellent, and I can rekay all of them. They were also $17.95 for each set.

The scary part of this little story is that these were for sale in packages in a local shop. Every package had the same four keys, all with the same bitting. It's not that good either. 1 high in the front, 3 mediums on the same level, and 1 high in the rear.

I'd suggest buying locks with keys if you aren't up to repinning, and taking a good look at the bitting on the keys when you buy them.

Romstar

[Guitar_J]

I'm all for repinning... I've taken the pins out of all my Kwikset deadbolts except the one that I practice on, I use the pins from the others to make some nice challenging combinations. I wish i didn't keep loosing them though, I've taken apart 5 locks (5 pins each = 25pins) and only have abut 10 pins left :-/ thats what I get for having butterfingers I guess...

I guess what I'm asking is... should I be able to pick the back pins and not touch the front ones? or is this just something that happens and you work with it..?

[Romstar]

It really depends a lot on just how high you have to push those rear pins. The other thing it depends on is the height of the pick shaft. Many of my picks use a straight shaft as opposed to a tapered shaft. In some cases I make and use the exact same pick, with the exception of the shaft. One is tapered and the other straight.

I said I made my first picks when I was 15, these were not the first set I had ever seen though. I used straight shafts for two reasons. They were easier to use, and easier to grind. Find my post about my first homemade set, and you will see the pictures.

Commonly, this is something that just happens and you learn to deal with it. I know of some locks where just sticking in the pick oversets some of the pins, and you need to have a narrow pick, and no tension just to get to the back, and start picking.

I'm currently working on something that may help alieviate this problem, but I don't know if it will work yet. It's a bit difficult to make, I'll know soon enough though.

In the meantime, grab the grinder, and make some narrow shafts.

Romstar

[Guitar_J]

I have problems with narrow shafts, I break them... when I was using homemade picks I had some TINY shafts, and I could pick a bit better with them, but I broke them... quickly... I don't know if it was a learning curve type thing.. or if I was just too rough.. or if they were too thin.. but either way they broke..

I then got these Southords, which I really like, but they have thicker shafts, which I've gotten used to, but with decreased manuverability.

Oh well... maybe I'll make some more picks and see what happens..

[Romstar]

The first two things you have to deal with when it comes to very narrow shafts is:

1. Material selection. Spring steel is the only thing that will really take the punishment.
2. Never, never let the shaft get hot when grinding.

I've had some decent success with stainless steel as well, but by and large the spring steel takes the stress much better.

Romstar

[Guitar_J]

I know one problem I had, I was using High speed Carbon Hacksaw Blades... I read (I think either you or Pyro posted) that those blades aren't suitable for this type of application... I know they weren't getting too hot... I was dunking every count of 3... maybe I'll try some spring steel...

[Romstar]

Hacksaw blades are funny things. Some carbon steels will flex very well. Others simply can't take it unless there is a certain amount of material. Also, don't use bi-metal blades. Once you get rid of the teeth, you are into a very soft metal that is completely unsuitable for picks.

I'll check out some of the stuff I am using, but if you can find it at all get some 1/2'x12"x0.025" feeler gauges. If you can't get these, you can get the size spring steel from www.smallparts.com these strips make incredible picks.

Any feeler gauge stock from 0.018 to 0.028 make good picks. Most comercial picks are made with .020 .022 or .025. The really heavy picks are .028 and I think it's the Rytans that use .018 for some of their thin picks.

Romstar

[Romstar]

Well, I was sitting here thinking about what I had said concerning hacksaw blades. I think a small discussion is in order concerning hardening and heat treating.

Since we are using carbon steel, we are already starting with an excellent material. Carbon steel is in fact nothing more than plain old iron with some carbon in it. This is normally between 0.4% and 1.2% carbon. The carbon is present in the form of iron carbide scattered amongst the iron molecules.

Heating the metal above a critical temperature (usually red hot and non-magnetic) causes the iron carbide to mix uniformly with the iron in a non-crystalline form (called austenite). Slow cooling at this point (eg buried in wood ash or lime) results in a soft layered crystalline structure and is referred to as annealing. Rapid cooling in water or oil results in a very hard crystalline structure (called martensite). The creation of either extreme requires, however, heating to the critical temperature first to form austenite.

Workable properties are achieved by reheating the martensitic iron to an intermediate temperature which alters the crystalline structure and makes the metal softer with progressively higher temperatures.

This is what we are interested in. Obviously heating and cooling the steel is only a small part of what we are trying to acheive. In order to do this, you will require a torch, an electric hot plate, a pyrex pot or tray some oil about 5w30 should suffice, a standard electric oven, and a place to work.

Start by heating pouring 1-2 litres of oil into the pyrex pot or tray. Place on electric hotplate, and set burners to high. This is to heat the oil.

After the oil has gotten hot, you are ready to begin. Why the oil you ask? Can't you do this with water? Okay, yes you can do this with water, but heated oil results in a faster cooiling rate and more even cooling by avoiding a nasty little problem known as vapouring. Basically, when you plunge red hot steel into water, the water doesn't really surround the steel, the steel causes the water to turn to vapour immediately. The hot steel will continue to do this until the two temperatures are similar. This can cause warping in the steel, and uneven cooling.

So, lets continue. With your heated oil close enough to reach, but far enough away not to bump, start up your torch.

Heat the steel to red hot, and hold that colour/temperature for at least 1 minute.

Plunge the red hot steel into the oil to cool. Swish the steel around for 10-20 seconds, and then place on a metal sheet to finish cooling.

Do this to as many picks as you ahve made.

At this stage you have a very, very hard and also very very brittle pick. This will result in an esily snapped piece of steel. So turn off the torch, turn off the hot plate and wait for your picks to cool to room temperature.

Now, go into your kitchen and arrange all your picks on a piece of tin foil. Place the picks into your oven, and turn the oven on to 450F degrees. Wait for the temperature light to go off, and then wait again for about 3 hours. Then, turn off the oven, remove the picks and place somewhere to air cool. This should result in a very tough pick that flexes withough shattering. If you discover that they are still too hard, temper them at 450 again for another three hours.

This second stage can also be done with a torch, but requires a good eye, and control. Below you will find a generalized colour to temperature scale. You can use this as your guide.

Brown yellow-------------------500 degrees
Brown purple-------------------520 degrees
Light purple---------------------530 degrees
Full purple-----------------------540 degrees
Dark purple---------------------550 degrees
Full blue-------------------------560 degrees
Dark blue-----------------------570 degrees
Very dark blue-----------------600 degrees
Red, visible in dark------------752 degrees
Red, visible in twilight----------885 degrees
Red, visible in daylight---------975 degrees
Red, visible in sunlight---------1077 degrees
Dark red------------------------1292 degrees
Dull cherry red-----------------1472 degrees
Cherry red----------------------1652 degrees
Bright cherry red---------------1832 degrees
Orange-red--------------------2012 degrees

Romstar

[Ice]

...hm, my first thoughts of "are some locks just too simple?" were the luggage locks where the twist of anything opens them. But I definately agree that pin configurations can make the lock easier/harder and also how some of the pins are aligned/etc can also make a difference se well.

Romstar - I'm impressed, how did you know all those colour-temperature?

[Guitar_J]

Thanks for the informative post Romstar, I'll temper the next batch of picks that I make and see what happens..

[Gyrine]

Good post Romstar, metallurgical backround? I run a Metallographic lab and thought your post was well-written.

[logosys]

Well, I was sitting here thinking about what I had said concerning hacksaw blades. I think a small discussion is in order concerning hardening and heat treating

.......

Romstar

Ok, I'm about to walk into a Material Science midterm. Romstar, you're my wingman. Quick - What's the crystalline structure and combination number for mild steel?

[Chucklz]

I know that this probably should go without saying, but with hot oil, torches and metal at several hundred degrees, one should really take the time to set things up for safety. Definately wear long pants, welders apron etc. A fire extinguisher that is oil friendly should obviously be close at hand.

[frollard]

Good thought!....