Any good way to extract a key from new Krypto disc lock??

[J-Hood]

I have run into a few of these new kryptonite bike locks in which it appears the bottom disc has spun away from the rest of the disk and the key gets stuck and breaks off. I am wondering if anybody has a solution that doesn't involve a cutter??

In the same vein how many of you were ever able to actually pick the ole style with a pen cap (ie. the reason for the new "improved" lock)??

Jason

[mh]

Can you explain that problem a bit more? I simply can't imagine how it could get the key stuck? That is, why can't you turn it back?


And no, I never successfully tried a pen cap, but toilet paper roll cardboard worked fine for me.

Cheers,
mh

[J-Hood]

Sorry I may be confusing the issue by including both types of locks in my post. Kryptonite put out a new lock because of the bad press of the pen cap pick and it has disc in in like a Abbloy lock. The problem appears to be that the disc are spinning during the bike ride and when the owner puts in his key it goes in part way and turns some but then gets jammed. I have dealt with 15-20 of these in the last couple years (college campus nearby).

Apparently kryptonite is aware of the issue and is paying for service calls and labor as well as replacing the lock, and while that is awesome and what they should do i sort of feel bad that a company is doing the right thing for a change and they are losing money because i can't fix the problem on my end. If it was a company getting sued because they are being stubborn it is one thing but in this day and age to have a company back their product 100% is rare and it makes me respect them enough to want to figure this out.

Jason

[mh]

ABUS X-Plus deals with that problem and fixes the discs until the key is fully inserted.

Cheers,
mh

[bumber]

why not leave the key in it, and keep the whole lock in your bag or get a bag just big enough for it, like a basketball bag or something...when you get there take out the key and lock it up...the bag is just there to keep the key from being lost IF it falls out...are the locks key retaining? If so that would almost eleminate the bag..or not you choose Just a thought, it cant hurt

[J-Hood]

why not leave the key in it, and keep the whole lock in your bag or get a bag just big enough for it, like a basketball bag or something...when you get there take out the key and lock it up...the bag is just there to keep the key from being lost IF it falls out...are the locks key retaining? If so that would almost eleminate the bag..or not you choose Just a thought, it cant hurt

LOL yeah a lock with the key in it all the time should be safe. It would keep people from picking the lock. What with the key in the keyway and all, it will be very difficult to put any tools in...

Jason

[bumber]

The problem appears to be that the disc are spinning during the bike ride and when the owner puts in his key it goes in part way and turns some but then gets jammed.

I guess I forgot to quote that the first time which was what my whole post was geared towards...

[raimundo]

abloy type of disc locks only allow limited turn on a disc, only about a quarter turn.

when a picker or some other cause has left a disc turned, the key will not fully insert until the disc is picked up.

In normal operation, a series of back and forth 90 degree turns while pushing lightly on the key will get it into the disc that has been turned out of alignment. then it opens the lock.

If a picker with a hook reached down there and set that disc at the quarter turn, that same hook could also be used to drag the disc back into the line.

[bumber]

so its not the lock&keys fault its the owners fault...hmm, that makes sense

[J-Hood]

Yeah I get how to not get a key stuck but I am getting the call after the key is already stuck or better yet, already broken. Usually the break is just below the first disc and there is very little space to get around the key to grab it and it is snapped off because the customer could not get the key out in the first place before it broke... add to that the first disc spinning in the way everytime you try to pull it out and I go for the angle grinder pretty much right away at this point. I am just hoping to find a way to fix it and save the lock.

Jason

[mh]

Why not get all the discs' rectangular keyways straight in a line, then turn the lock upside down and the broken bit will fall out?

Cheers,
mh

[J-Hood]

Why not get all the discs' rectangular keyways straight in a line, then turn the lock upside down and the broken bit will fall out?

Cheers,
mh

Usually the break is just below the first disc and there is very little space to get around the key to grab it and it is snapped off because the customer could not get the key out in the first place before it broke...

Not to be rude but the post right above yours is saying the key couldn't come out with the head attached. The key is jammed in the lock to the point that the owner is breaking his key off while attempting to get it out. So turning it upside down is not going to work. I have also tried smacking the back side of the lock with a hammer while upside down and all disc lined up.

I am really hoping for an answer from someone with experiance with this situation because random guesses are not going to work to solve the issue. From the locksmiths I have talked to about this so far at cons, there is no answer and the angle grinder is the fast solution. I want an alternative to destroying the lock.

Jason

[J-Hood]

Why not get all the discs' rectangular keyways straight in a line, then turn the lock upside down and the broken bit will fall out?

Cheers,
mh

By the way thank you for giving ideas but this is just a annoying problem that I have been dealing with for a while. I do appreciate you thinking about it and I didn't want to seem ungrateful as I seemed to have come off in the previous post, and with no edit feature I can only offer an apology. Thanks!!

Jason

[mh]

No problem, no offense taken.

It's just that I have put much thought into these types of locks and I have a hard time right now trying to imagine what exactly went wrong. Maybe the discs are somehow bent?

From what you described, the key apparently hasn't been pushed all the way into the lock, so that it doesn't open the lock mechanism and the user starts forcing the lock. But if the key breaks while it's not fully inserted, how can the broken-off tip then go behind the bottom disk?

I wonder if you could maybe post some pictures of the situation?

Cheers,
Michael

Wait - I guess I'm counting the disks the other way than you... Is the largest part of the key still inserted?
In that case, in normal operation, you turn the key 90 degrees clockwise, and then all the way back, and this would line the disks up and the key can be pulled out. The disks could not be turned further back than to 0 degrees, so the keyway automatically becomes rectangular.
But if the key is broken off, its probably bent and not straight anymore and will be hard to remove, as you wrote...
Did you try drilling into the key so that you could screw in a screw-remover that would grab the key and you could use that to pull?
This is really just a wild guess. Sorry.

[J-Hood]

Thanks for the help MH but at this point I am going to assume that nobody has an answer or they would have spoke up by now. To answer your question the key is not in all the way but by the time I get the call it is stuck in its position completely. My guess is the key is cut like abbloy and the grove on the disc is allowing the key to turn slightly "45degrees or less" The key is one space out of the lock and the groove is wrong but close enough to allow the partial turn and jam. I have only seen one where the key was not sheared off already and in that one the key would not move or pull out telling me one of the waffers below has not turned or only turned slightly.

Oh well I always have the grinder...

Jason