Lock Picking Ethics

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OK, so one of the rules for lock picking is don't pick locks that don't belong to you. I'm aware this is probably a very dumb question, but does that mean one shouldn't pick friends' locks even with express permission? I can think of some reasons this might hold true, but I wanted to hear from the experienced members if there's something I haven't considered.[/i]

[bumber]

you can pick any lock that the OWNER has given you expressed permission to do so...as long as that is the case you good.

[vitti]

If the lock is in use then the answer is still no, it's a bad idea. This is because it is possible to damage the lock and if it is in use then you run the risk of not being able to lock/unlock that door/cabinet/bike/etc. again without repairs.

If you are referring to a padlock or other lock that is not in use, then of course there is nothing wrong with picking it when you have permission from it's owner to do so.

[pickmonger]

Let me ask you a question

If you know for a fact that several people you knew were good at picking locks and something was stolen from your locker at school, your bike, or even your home ...... would you ever wonder if they may have had something to do with it.

In general I have found that the fewer people who know I can pick locks the fewer headaches I have.

Lets say John needs $$$ real fast for his crack addiction . Its well known that Steve can picks locks and loves to show off.

Unfortuantely no one knows John can pick locks. When he picks a few locks and steals a couple of laptops and other toys he wont be a suspect.
Rest assured that he will point out that Steve can picks locks and that Steve is the thief.

Unfortuantely I was the Steve once . It was a very nasty learning lession.

You and I know that most lockpickers are honest but the general public does not see it that way. I assure you that the cops do not see it that way.

[JK_the_CJer]

Would I feel comfortable picking a friend's lock (esp during a lockout situation)? Absoutely yes and I have many times before. Lockies, please spare me the "they took our jobs!" speech.

Is it ethical to pick on your friend's door if you inform him that something might be damaged and he gives permission? I think so.

Is it a good idea to practice on your friend's lock (with permission) or your own lock in use? Heck no.

Also there is something that many people overlook: Who does the lock actually belong to? Just because your friend has a key to his front door, this does not make him the lock owner. It is his parents' house? Is it a filing cabinet owned by his work? These are just examples of questions you should ask yourself.

Would other people or property be affected in a worst case scenario (however far-fetched)? Meaning: if there were a fire behind your friends door while you guys had it locked and you broke that pick off, what would happen?

These aren't targetted questions, just a few things to think about when making these sorts of decisions.

[patrick181]

Lets say John needs $$$ real fast for his crack addiction . Its well known that Steve can picks locks and loves to show off.

I had to read this twice, I thought you were saying you had a crack addiction!

[Eyes_Only]

[quote="JK_the_CJer"]Would I feel comfortable picking a friend's lock (esp during a lockout situation)? Absoutely yes and I have many times before. Lockies, please spare me the "they took our jobs!" speech.

I think the only thing that bothers most locksmiths when it comes down to it is when the customer calls them for a lockout service and when he arrives he discovers that the customers neighbor kid already picked it open for them. Now the locksmith has wasted time, gas and wear/tear on their vehicle. And if that poor locksmith is an employee his boss/shop owner might pressure him to collect the service charge from the customer anyways cos he went through all that trouble to go out there.

So simply put if the locked out individual has already called a locksmith to do the job then we'd ask a hobbyist not to make our life any harder by picking the lock for them.

But if they haven't called a lockie yet, the person gives you permission and you know what you're doing then it's all good. Sometimes we need a little downtime anyways.

[freakparade3]

I make is clear on the phone that if I get in my truck and come out there they owe me a service call fee. If the job is finished when i get there Oh well, they pay the service call or I call the cops.

[dougfarre]

I am officially amending the lockpicking constitution.

The new creed says "Don't PRACTICE picking locks that are in use."
And its going to be official too, because I am going to post it all over the internet and everyone is going to think thats how it always was.
There I solved everyone's problems!

[digital_blue]

Heh. This is a funny thread.

For the record, I've never considered the "Don't pick locks that are in use" really part of the lock picker's credo. I think it's helpful advice that can keep a newbie out of trouble. But I don't really think it has ANYTHING to do with the ethics of lock picking whatsoever.

The credo that I've shouted from the rooftops for as long as I can remember is

"You may only pick locks that you own, or those to which you've been given expressed permission to pick by the rightful owner."

In my mind, it's simple, easy to follow, and leaves no room for misinterpretation.

And, just as a little note, it does in every way answer the question of the original poster.

But yes, I agree it is a good idea for the neophyte to avoid picking locks that are in use. We've all seen how bad that can go.

db

[raimundo]

if the person has already called a locksmith, you could also just stick around and watch, you might learn something new. They hate that also, some think they have the authority to order you away.

I was asked to open a mercedes once, I knew better than offer to do it as it takes some tools I didn't have. So I stayed around and she called the locksmith, he came out and tried some window tools, got frustrated and quoted a higher price than had been quoted for the lockout, she said go ahead and I continued to watch til he failed and drove away. that job went from 60 bucks to 138 bucks, to forget it, see ya.

then we drove to her house and I picked two doors to get her in and she found the spare key and that was the end of it.

[JK_the_CJer]

I make is clear on the phone that if I get in my truck and come out there they owe me a service call fee. If the job is finished when i get there Oh well, they pay the service call or I call the cops.

Good stuff. If I were a lockie ( god forbid ), I would do business the same way. Not strictly because of the possibility of someone getting in while I'm en-route, but that is one very good reason (does this happen often?)

[digital_blue]

Just curious... what do you do if you get in your truck, then 10 minutes later they call you back to tell you they don't need you after all?

Do you then go beat on their door and tell them you want your money? Or do you just turn around and call it a day?

Seems to me that, although I can see it being a total pain, it would come down to basic customer service. Sometimes satisfying the client means taking a hit. Just curious if the lockies here feel the same way or not?

It's one of those things... if Walmart ran a locksmithing business, you just know that they'd be easily taken advantage of by lowlifes, and yet they'd end up being the largest locksmithing business in the world.

db

[freakparade3]

To answer JK, it does not happen often. For DB, It depends on the situation. If it's a company or person I do business with on a regular basis, as long as they call before I get there it's no problem. When I get to a place and knock on the door and they say "we got it already, thanks." They will pay my service call fee or I'll call the cops and report theft of services. Also, the next time they call my price goes up, so it evens out. Thats the great thing about owning your own business. if someone is a jerk the price just keeps going up.

freakparde3

[J-Hood]

To back up what FP said I too charge apon showing up but if they call before I get there it is my issue. If they want change their mind or tell me of a cheaper service when I am onsite they will be paying me my SC or going to jail. Service call is to show up not work, work is on a hourly basis. I got peolpe all the time in Florida playing games but so far in 6-7 years I have only had one get away with it.

I don't care if someone gets in by a hobbiest picking the lock as long as they are not wasting my energy by calling me or asking for info. You guys got to realize that the info alone that you have is actually valuable. It takes time and money to learn how to do what we can and if you do it as an investment to your future it is even more so.

Jason