Evidence of Picking - Forensic?

[RangerF150]

Where can I buy a copy of Locks, Safes and, Security.

http://www.security.org/

Also I heard there are three versions of it is that true?

Yes it is. http://www.security.org/lss-tour/COST.HTM

I got my copy from Amazon, mainly because the order page on security.org is not a secure page! Odd, considering the guy is so heavily involved in the whole security thing. I would not give my CC details over a plain HTML page.

[Safety0ff]

I got my copy from Amazon, mainly because the order page on security.org is not a secure page! Odd, considering the guy is so heavily involved in the whole security thing. I would not give my CC details over a plain HTML page.

I wouldn't either. Here's more locations to get it:

Vendors for both the hardbound and multimedia editions are: www.security.org, MBA USA, LOCKMASTERS, ALOA, HL FLKAE, PETERSON MANUFACTURING, M-S-C.

And Amazon.com for the hardbound editions.

That's surprising that it's not a secure checkout.Maybe you should send him an email.
Quite ironic as you mention.

[raimundo]

brass is the choice for locks because its self lubricating with a little bit of lead in the alloy. this makes it cut like butter in the manufacture, and brass rubbing on brass will smooth the surface of both sides, not cut into it. Steel with a sharp angle will cut brass. rounded and smooth steel will burnish it,

The marks described earlier by maxxed, I think it was, were the marks of rough edged factory tools, these marks are visible without magnification,

In the movies, they often determine that a lock was picked by scratch marks on the face of the cylinder. that would be a practice lock

A new key in a new lock will not show wear much right away. some of the wear on an older key is from the keyring, not from use in the lock, so this accounts for the rounded edges of old keys. the pins ride on the edges, and here it is the pins that leave normal wear, whichis only the flattening of the surface to a shine.

this pattern of wear on an old key and old lock will create a polished surface where pins ride the edge of the key. the bottoms of the pins which do rotate, should be shiny and rounded. with approximately even tool marks which are so light as to be negligible without magnification.

A highly polished rounded hard steel pick will go in and leave microscopic burnishing trails on this evenly prepared surface. Under magnification, these will be easier to see than the same tools marks on a new lock where the surface has not been prepared by repeated brass on brass burninshing.

[Stormseye]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks very much for the info you provided here. It is exactly what I needed. I don't really need to go into much detail regarding what was done, or how it was done. The lock picking section of this project is only part of the whole. I have to create a feasible fictional scene in which a crime was committed in someone's home while they were home, but neither the crime nor the evidence is immediately visible. So I have to research each stage, and make sure that 'clues' are left behind, but are not obvious. The report is more about how to build a scene than anything else, but I have to make sure it is accurate.

Thanks again. This was perfect.

[dvdrums]

Well I for one am not a writing a report, I'm working on a crime novel, so I can ask pointed questions.

I've got an intruder picking a lock in an unoccupied apartment. I'd like for there to be enough evidence left on the lock itself for criminalists to at least guess it was picked. There seems to be a wide variety of opinions in this thread whether the naked eye could determine a lock had been picked before it was removed and sent to a lab.

This guy just got off a plane so he can't carry a pick gun or anything fancy, I'm thinking a torsion wrench and hook pick at most—but is that enough to bypass a set deadbolt?

[mh]

Sure, you can do almost everything with a tensioning tool and a hook.

If the burglar is stupid and / or not experienced, the lock can be left in an odd state, where the keyway is not upright but turned a little, or even 'blocked' at 180 degrees. That could lead people to the assumption that the lock was picked...

Cheers,
mh

[MacGyver101]

. . . a torsion wrench and hook pick at most—but is that enough to bypass a set deadbolt?

I once opened a (very cheap, but sadly popular) Kwikset deadbolt with an optical screwdriver and a small cable tie, in about 15 seconds. Against that lock, your jetsetting intruder would do just fine with a proper lockpick and tension wrench.

[Kaotik]

The report is more about how to build a scene than anything else, but I have to make sure it is accurate.

To add to the accuracy of your project, you might want to use the term picked and not bypassed, as bypassing is a different technique that doesn't involve the actual picking of a lock.

I know that it was dvdrums that mentioned bypassing but for the both of you there is a difference, and I for one wouldn't want either of you to get confused over the terms for your projects.

What I can't stand most is reading a novel in a set pace and then come across a section where the author didn't do a more thorough investigation or a good understanding of a particular subject...even in a fictional story. One of my peeves I guess.

[dvdrums]

Much obliged for the quick replies—and I promise to avoid the word "bypass".

[raimundo]

picking is not a bypass, its a pass through the chimney is a bypass.

[Kaotik]

picking is not a bypass, its a pass through the chimney is a bypass.

To go off topic for a brief moment, but that brings to mind the episodes on the most amazing videos or something like that where these dumb guys were entering through chimney's and the kitchen hood vents to gain entry in buildings and getting stuck.

That has got to be the most embarrassing thing to deal with when you can't get away because they have to cut you out...

[raimundo]

actually its a fairly frequent story and usually the person is rescued sometimes with the fire dept destroying the chimney, then there is the other ending where the person dies a lingering death trapped in the claustrophobic soot. Its social darwinism, culling the herd of the really stupid.

[maxxed]

I believe the best way to deal with stupidity is to remove all warning labels and let the problem solve itself.

[Raymond]

DVDRUMS

Your character could have a key on his keyring that is the same or a similar keyway. He could then riffle it very quickly in and out of the door lock with slight turning pressure. When the pins all hang at the shear line, the lock will open. He has picked the lock with a key. Is this a picking or a bypass? What forensic evidence might be present with this type of opening? How could it be proven? I once had a key that if pulled out one space became the building's master. If the character knew the bitting ahead of time he could rekey his own house using the normal key and then pull it out one space to open his target's house. It could never be proven that his key was not just a random combination.

[raimundo]

A long time ago, I was working in a lockshop in sanfrancisco and the Feebs came in with a common schlage C lock and asked if there was a way to find out where the door related to it was, it had no particular stampings on it. You know the answer, "forget about it"
then I saw a 'real cops' show on tv, about some police in the carolinas, who where looking to find the identification of a victim by taking a key around to various locksmiths, this also was a common schlage C but it had markings stamped on it.
The locksmith recognized it as part of a large buildings numerous keys, but they didn't know which door so they went around and tried it on all the doors until it opened one.
This was mostly luck. I was once replaceing a front door lock and had to make about 30 keys for various tenants, I was replacing a five pin cylinder with a 6 pin cylinder, so there was no need to think about whether the new key would be substancially different from the old one.
i found a schlage key with the numbers that indicated it was an original, and made the copies and went to the jobsite, It was there that the skeptical client looked at the new key beside the old key and discovered that the 2nd to 6th pins were exactly the same as the old key. Still there was no chance that a 5pin key would open the six pin lock, but it caused a problem with the clients confidence, and I had to renegociate,

The fact is that any given key has its doppelgangers in some places that could come up by coincidence. NO modern mass manufactured key is completely unique in bitting. A very special order could have a keyway that is completely unique, but the bitting on some other near similiar key will be exactly the same. the only thing special is keyway warding which is not immune to shaving a different blank/bitted key to fit.

Back in the day, while GM was using the original briggs and stratton sidebar lock, it was not uncommon to find that an old car with a key that is worn rounded and smooth would fit in some other old car. I knew of numerous cases of this being found by people.

Of course there where the 64 halfcut tryout keys that usually had one that would fit the lock a bit stiffly, I still have a ring of these around, with the old fashioned hexagon keybow, (that takes it back to the 50's and 60's) but
what GM did was change the warding every few years, yet the old halfcuts could simply be copied on a new blank for the next set of tryouts.

Halfcut refers to cuts halfway between the numbers such as a three and a half which would suffice to open either a three cut or a four cut. tumbler.
or at least set it up so that force could push it into the v groove on the edge of the tumbler and use the tolerances of the lock to do the rest.