High Security Lock for my house...

[kizmit]

Im looking to install a high security lock on my house. I was thinking about installing an Abloy on the front door of my house. I called the local locksmith today and he recommended not using Abloy. He said that if someone shoves a screwdriver in the cylinder it might bend/break the disks, making the lock inoperable (he said he saw this happen a lot in the past). He also said he no longer sells or works on Abloy locks anymore, nor do many locksmiths in the area. He then said Medeco is the leader in the high security locks and that those are the types he would recommend using instead of Abloy.Sorry I am such a newbie, I just want to secure my house as much as I can

Anyone ever have this issue?

Is it something I should be concerned about?

Should I look at the medecos or some otherbrand?


Thanks in advance...

kizmit
(more puzzled than ever)

[freakparade3]

Don't go with Medeco, there will be information released soon that will severly compromise their security. My front door has a Scorpion lock, I'd recommend it to anyone, Bilock is another great one but Scorpion offers great security for a better price.

[Jaakko]

Go with the Abloy. The locksmith you spoke to either lied or your area is a screw-driver-test-grounds.

As you can see, I'm in Finland and we have like 99.9% of the locks Abloy and I have never seen anything shoved in to the lock except for glue in a schools padlock.

I would go with Abloy: More secure than the Medeco suggested, more rugged and doesn't wear in use practically at all. Just a week ago I serviced a 24 year old Abloy Classic and there was no signs of wear or tear except the keyway was about 0.1-0.2mm wider.

[JackNco]

yeah but putting supper glue in a lock would also damage it, there are loads of ways to damage a lock.

Abloy make some very nice locks.

[J-Hood]

Well good job doing some research first. Just about any real high security lock is going to get what you want done. Well that is assuming you are looking for better bolts than store bought crap, key control, and pick resistance. Is that what you are going for??

If so your next step is to look into what the locksmiths in your area carry. Medeco makes a great deadbolt and that is what you should put your money into. The scorpion company mention also makes a great Db because it is a copy of the Medeco with a different keyway. The truth is 99% of the trouble you are going to see is forceful entry not picking. So a good frame is more important than what brand you go with.

All HS (high security) locks are going to have a great bolt in their DB (dead bolt) and that is what is going to keep someone out of your house. Having a locksmith install the DB for you should, hopefully, get you a strike plate that is attached to your inner frame and not just the 1" pine that breaks apart at the slightest dirty look. By inner frame I mean a stud or concrete block. Either way you should ask about the 3" screws in the box and make sure they are used or Tapcons in case of concrete block.

The HS market is pretty competitive and almost all locks sold as such have restrictive keys meaning you can't get copies anywhere but the store of origin. They should also be pick resistant and bump resistant. Non are sold as "proof" because some JK might figure it out one day and write about it. The Scorpion company mentioned above is a little used company that is now CX-5 (catch up Freak) and is still in the "not been picked category" as far as I know simply because it is not popular. Medeco is like the hot chick at the bar, everybody is trying and somebody is gonna score eventually, and has. CX-5 has not been attacked nearly as hard by the picking crowd and they make a great lock (my shop uses them and I think we are the #1 seller for them) but many other locks are just as good in the big picture.

My recommendation sight unseen would be as follows.

1- Make sure you have a secure frame
2- research your local companies and go with the one you think will do the best job and who you feel the most comfortable with, not the cheapest!!!
3- Spend your money on DBs from the HS company itself and skip out on the knobs if you can't afford to do it all. Schlage DBs (except the 600 series) are a joke but they will accept a HS cyl. A good HS DB will cost more than $130 and if it is installed correctly it will be worth it. A knobs is easily bypassed so not worth the money unless you are going for ease of use.
4- Lastly remember that you are pretty much making your door look harder to get through than your neighbors, crooks want to go the easy route. It may be worth buying the name "Medeco" in some cases but most HS locks look different enough to be recognized.

Jason

[globallockytoo]

Very good advice from Jason.

It is all about the frame.

HS is an option to consider usually when key control is the principle goal.

Medeco unfortunately, is rarely sold outside USA because it is way too far overpriced for the quality of product (IMHO). Most locksmiths will rarely attempt picking one, but they can be picked and bumped. Proof and evidence has already been released.

Abloy Protec is a brilliant product. The only reason I suggest your chosen locksmith knocked the product, is because he had none in stock....and wanted to move the Medeco product he has.

Medeco products are often sold on keyways through distributors, so exclusive keyways are not as common and consequently there are multiple companies offering the same keyway (especially in Chicago).

On the other hand, Scorpion CX-5 is an excellent product that is far more reasonably priced than Medeco. Their Gr1 deadbolt is brilliant. Install the box strike into your frame and you'll be set.

Or, if you want to spend less, Bilock deadbolts are available in Gr2 for about $95. They cant be picked or bumped, you can usually choose your own colored key heads, they are a modern pin tumbler phenomenon.
There are only about 25 dealers across the USA (1 in Chicago). Each dealer designs their own systems. Keys cannot be duplicated....only supplied as originals.

Above all else, you should consider a product like the Strikemaster II to reinforce your door jamb. They are inexpensive, easy to install, aesthetically pleasing and virtually prevent the door from being kicked in.

[WOT]

Medeco locks aren't bad. They're not vulnerable in quite the same way as Kwikcrap. If you've got something they want bad enough, glass window is quite easily breached.

[linty]

abloy OWNS medeco. There's definitely no question about who's leading and who's following. That being said they are both good locks. My shop sells MTL, ASSA twin, abloy medeco, and cx-5. I would tell you go abloy, and if you're cheap go medeco but don't bother with the rest.

[kizmit]

Thanks everyone for the replys, this is where I am at now.

I figure I would explain why I wanted to add some HS stuff to my house. A while ago I was at my friends house who is kind of a jack of all trades, he knows a little about everything. He had a buddy of his there (I didnt know him) and they were talking about locks/picking/bumping etc. So this guy wanted to prove how easy it is to get into someones locked house. He explained that he could easily get into my friends locked house in under a minute. So we went outside and he bumped the lock in less than 30 seconds. I almost crapped myself. It was really cool, yet disheartening all at the same time. Kind felt sick afterward if you know what I mean. This was the first time I ever saw a lock bumped in person.

So, this guy proceeded to explain a little about the different locks on the market. He also stated its important to change the strike plates and hinge screws on the door frame. That all got me thinking...I am also in the midst of adopting a son, and I of course thought about his well being. Plus the fact that I normally take everything to the extreme doesn't help. But you get the picture.

1. Yesterday I bought a StrikeMaster II to install on the door jam.
2. I kind of figured the locksmith thing sounded fishy.
3. I am a bit more educated about locks and deadbolts now.
4. We are trying to pick out door hardware that might work with an upgraded HS cylinder & deadbolt. The wife likes the look of a schlage similar to this one: http://i2.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/f0/e3/d06a_1.JPG

I personally like the look & quality of the Abloy Protec locks plus the size of the key is nice, I know that shouldn't be a defining factor, but the medecos are way to big imho.

If I cant get a local locksmith to sell me the lockset Ill order one from bayarealocks.com or another online locksmith. I am pretty handy and should be able to install whatever lock I choose myself.

So all thats left is door hardware - do we buy a schlage setup like above or something by itself.

And lasty the HS Deadbolt/cylinder...
Alboy Protec
Scorpion
BiLock
etc...

[jpb06080]

The schlage is nice, but expensive compared to alot of imports you can get. Personally, we sell almost exclusively USCAN, which costs about a 3rd as much as schlage. I happen to know that USCAN doesn't sell a thumb latch, but the point is that you can find the same type of lock for cheaper by avoiding schlage. If money isn't really an issue, you might want to look into something like Emtek.

[WOT]

The schlage is nice, but expensive compared to alot of imports you can get. Personally, we sell almost exclusively USCAN, which costs about a 3rd as much as schlage. I happen to know that USCAN doesn't sell a thumb latch, but the point is that you can find the same type of lock for cheaper by avoiding schlage. If money isn't really an issue, you might want to look into something like Emtek.

If you want a quick easy solution, you could just find a drop-in replacement cylinder for your dead bolt at http://bayarealocks.com. If you cover all keyed exterior doors and you avoid ADA handles that can be opened with an under the door tool, you've got yourself covered pretty well against surreptitious entry.

You'll have to reinforce the frame if you want protection against door getting kicked down.

[raimundo]

frame on modern houses can be actually quite weak, the door frame is finish carpentry, nailed to the studs rough carpentry, to get it level and fit it to the opening in the rough carpentry, they use wooden wedge shims, this technique makes an inherently weak door frame, the door frame itself is only weak five eights inch thick material, and could even be chipboard covered with a laminate, that would be the very worst.
Quality older houses, made pre WWII can have solid oak one inch thick framing the door and the frame is more securly fastened to the rough carpentry. personally I use the longest sheet rock screws to strengthen door frames, these are hardend screws with a good thread to prevent pullin out as nails can do.

The locksmith who told you that about abloy was selling some other product that he actually carries, and he probably also cannot properly service an abloy in a lockout or whatever. the abloy design has a hundred years of proven effectiveness, its so good that its going to be around a long time. there are no springs in the lock to break or wear out, the kind of screwdriver that can go into one of the keyholes is actually very small. and will not effectively open it, the likelyhood of anyburglar doing this to more than one lock, that is doing something ineffective, well, he would be haveing a lot of failure in his plans.

People who are not familiar with abloy may believe that it has been broken if they cannot slide thier key in after someone has screwed around with it using a lockpick, this is because the discs can turn a quarter turn and be left there, to put the key in after this has happened, you just push lightly on it and wiggle the key back and forth, all the discs will quickly realign, takes only a second. Perhaps your locksmith was so unfamiliar with the lock that he didn't know this and thinks the locks are broken. Actually this feature can give you warning that someone has put a pick in your lock and moved the tumblers.

Any lock can be sabotaged by some or other force method, but a pin tumbler lock is susceptible to a very easy sabotage if someone is going to do that, any old key that fits the keyway, and there are a lot of them around, can be quickly modified to break the lock, by simply filing off the slopes that lift the pins as it slides out, so that instead of haveing a key with slopes /\/\/\/\/\/\/\ that can lift the pins on the way in and on the way out, they make a key that can only go in l\_l\_l\_l\_l\ . I know of no such lock destroyer for the abloy but I will leave that to Jaako who knows abloy.

While assa abloy may own medeco, the locksmith you spoke to only deals with the medeco product and is just trying the hard sell to get you to take one of his products.

Never believe the negatives scurrilous storys told about someone else by their competitor, thats just republican strawman bushit. Only fools believe it.

[kizmit]

Thanks very much for your valuable info. I think I will get the Abloy Protec for the house.

If I order the Abloy protec it comes with the bolt assembly right? not just the cylinder? I want a high quality bolt and guts as well as the cylinder. Basically the whole shabang.

Also, I live in hurricane central, our house is new construction (last 5yrs or so) and is rated for hurricane force winds. So I am pretty sure the door frame is well set.

Thanks for the info on the ADA handles as well, I didn't know that =)

Once I install the StrikeMaster II and replace the hinge hardware I should be good to go I think.

[J-Hood]

Raimundo, make sure any screws you decide to use have threads all the way to the head. It sounds like you are talking about useing the screws with the very corse threads and the blank section right below the head. These are aweful and usually back out with regular use fairly quickly. The threads all the way to the head are more important in newer construction because the blank section is in the crappy wood nearest the head and there are virtually no threads in the actual wood on those. The corse threads are another problem as vibration from normal use will back them out.

Kizmit: That schlage has the worse bolt of just about any lock out there. The big thing I look for with the bolts on the deadbolt assembly is how far back the bolt goes in the bolt housing. That lock you show uses the B360 bolt which when fully thrown has about 1/8th of an inch of real metal in the door behind the face which will quite politely move out of the way for any would be robber as they force their way in. Not to mention a bypass method or two that is pretty creepy. There are also long term problems with that bolt breaking and leaving the door locked.

Like I said before go with a HS original DB. The ones I have looked at have a full tang like a knife and the back of the metal in the bolt is more than an inch in. Stop by your sleazy locksmith and ask to look at a 360 bolt and a Medeco bolt and you will see just what I mean. I prefer a set backset over an adjustable as the adjustables have one more weakness in them for your convienence. If you want a cheaper DB for a HS cyl to go into look into the Arrow E-61 or E-62 if you want double sided. They retail around $40 and blow away all the Schalge DB's in the price range. They have interchangable cyl ability as long as you have the right type of cyl.

Jason

[Jaakko]

Litle offtopic, but...

I know of no such lock destroyer for the abloy but I will leave that to Jaako who knows abloy.

I can for sure say that any kind of "forcing key" will snap, because the keyway is so small and long (3mm x 21.5mm). And even if it did hold, it would only strip the keyway to round form, so the discs are still in there but can't be moved.