City and guilds

[79commando]

Has anyone that has attended a City and Guilds locksmith course actually received a certificate or received work by having done the course. I looked on the City and Guilds official site and they do not recognise locksmithing http://www.cityandguilds.com/cps/rde/xc ... 12908.html
Is it a rip off

[lockey1963]

almost certainly so , all recognised academic or vocational qualification based city and guilds qualifications take between 2 and 4 years to complete.

its a vessel to draw down government funding and nothing else, despite the wild claims.

i get work applications every week from so called fully qualified city and guilds locksmiths, who are just not up to the job, it may be stereo typing and biased, but as soon as i see city and guilds or BLA on an application it goes in the bin, unles 3 years good experience accompanies it.

No matter what a persons circumstances it will take many years to become even competent as a locksmith, still the best way is via an MLA apprenticeship or even a non mla proper apprenticeship, theres no substitute for experience.

[79commando]

Thought as much. I was speaking to someone who did a course in Newcastle and he had never heard of a curtain pick or a 2 in 1 pick. The way he was shown to open a British Standard mortice was to force the hardplate off with a screwdriver then lift the levers. That should take care of 1% of British Standard mortices and then only if it is a Sash lock on the left and the door is hollow to allow the hardplate to fall out of the way. Oh that's right most doors aren't hollow are they.
I wonder if they give refunds if you bring your own locks and the highly experienced trainer can't open them non destructively.

[lockey1963]

Courses in lock opening are all old hat now, surely years on, people have wised up ?
a good course is a good intro to locks and lock opening and no more, those now successfull guys who started out on a short course and still trading will be doing so through their own vocation, commitment and dedication.

courses still promise a shortage of lockies, easy 1K a week and all in a few days, yet in reality, the market place is even more over populated with less work about for the new start up, true start up figures are never discussed and true likelyhood of survival before success are never mentioned.

some of the best lock openers in the western world and beyond exist on forums like this, and more can be learnt from these forums than from 99% of the training courses.
Knowing locks inside out is a must, knowing locking systems is a must , knowing current regulations such as fire regs and current british standards is a must, knowing how to run and market a business is a must, yet none of this is covered, still just basic lock opening from course to course.

whether a course offers 2 days , 5 days 10 days or just 1 day, remember it will take many years to become competent, if able to , look for an apprenticeship, it will serve you better long term and will be worth far more than any worthless bit of paper, if deadly serious about this as a career then follow a route such as the MLA/BLI route, as will stand you well in the long term.

for those that cannot follow an apprentice route and have to follow the short course route, then my honest advice is if wanting to make a career out of this long term, your initial courses should be in upvc repair , basic carpentry , access control and lock and safe service work, this is where well paid work still exists, you can then perfect your nde skills, after all every man and his dog comming off of a short course learns basic opening, so very little work exists in these areas as so many are having a go, fitting and service work is where opportunity still exists.

within locksmithing in the uk, ability and experience count for everything, business accumen and marketing skills are essential and these will do more for your success than any piece of almost worthless paper ever could, a year reading and following tips on this and other forums along with practice will do more for you than any short course.

[toomush2drink]

Had a call last week from a "locksmith" asking if i had any work on offer.A quick chat revealed he "could do it all" (his words). I asked him how he would open a 114 ( a very common uk lock) and he asks if it has a curtain. I tell him it has ( should know this anyway) so he tells me he will pick it open. Ok what pick will you use ?

Well i will drill a hole then pick the levers.

i pointed out this is drilling and not picking, something he couldn't get his head around.
Another poorly trained person taking a little bit of the poor publics money.

the thing is hes just another victim of an unregulated training industry but probably didnt realise it till i asked him some questions.He actually said he had to go before i wound up the chat, obviously that moment of the reality sinking in.

Out of his depth and now realises he knows zilch.

[Dean W]

Has anyone that has attended a City and Guilds locksmith course actually received a certificate or received work by having done the course. I looked on the City and Guilds official site and they do not recognise locksmithing http://www.cityandguilds.com/cps/rde/xc ... 12908.html
Is it a rip off

Yeah, you will get a C & G certificate in locksmithing skills, although as already pointed out its not worth much and it takes a few months to arrive, but at least you could use the logo on your van etc that may appeal to the customer as everyone in the UK probably knows about C & G. I got mine from a shabby course I did in the north east 2 years ago costing around the 2k mark. I ended up taking another course with a different provider to improve my knowledge/skills I

[Keyring]

Yeah, you will get a C & G certificate in locksmithing skills, .... I got mine from a shabby course I did in the north east 2 years ago

So which C & G qualification number was it? I know they used to do a key cutting certificate years ago, whose syllabus seemed to mainly concentrate on how to keep your fingernails clean, but I'm not aware of any current qualification.

[Dean W]

Yeah, you will get a C & G certificate in locksmithing skills, .... I got mine from a shabby course I did in the north east 2 years ago

So which C & G qualification number was it? I know they used to do a key cutting certificate years ago, whose syllabus seemed to mainly concentrate on how to keep your fingernails clean, but I'm not aware of any current qualification.

number - 7346/01 - Locksmithing Skills. 12 different units. The MLA in the UK now do a C & G as well.

[lockey1963]

searching the city and guilds site at above link, i searched by number and got the following answer;

Your search for 7346/01 did not find any qualifications

[Dean W]

Not a lot I can do about that mate

Either I have a very good forgery on C & G cardboard or ??? Did my course with these:

http://www.anvillocksmiths.com/

heres the MLA C & G Course

http://www.locksmiths.co.uk/training/index.asp

[lockey1963]

the reason it does not appear is a simple one, its a portfolio certificate designed for in house certification and is not a qualification.

i can see the benefit on the van, but instead of duping the consumer with a worthless bit of tat, its a shame they dont write a proper qualification, its long overdue.