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Does anyone have experience with a Framon code cutter?

This is the old Locksmith business info area and will be broken down to fill in the new sections below.

Does anyone have experience with a Framon code cutter?

Postby WOT » 28 Mar 2008 10:28

Recently picked up their first model and I'm still working on making it usable.

I found the cutter shaft bearings were completely devoid of lubrication and although it runs, with the motor disconnected it didn't even spin freely by hand.

Boy it was a pain to even get to the bearings. The pulley was hard to get off, then the shaft had to be pounded out since it didn't slide out easily.

Finally, I was able to sneak in some lube into the ball bearings, but they're still in bad conditions and I'd love to replace them, but I doubt I'll ever get 'em out without sending it in somewhere.

Anyone got one? How serviceable do you think yours is?
WOT
 
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Postby keysman » 28 Mar 2008 10:58

I love my Framon #2 .. the best bet for you is send it back to the factory and have it reconditioned .. I forgot the cost but VERY reasonable and the machine comes back actually better than new.. they make some modifications to bring it up to date.

Framon Mfg. Co., Inc.
909 Washington Ave.
Alpena, Ml 49707
(989) 354-5623
FAX (989) 354-4238
Phil Agius - Sales Director
http://www.framon.com/
Everyone who eats potatoes eventually dies. Therefore potatoes are poisonous.
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Postby WOT » 26 Apr 2008 23:34

I'm sure I'm the last one to discover this, but the Framon #1/2 accepts standard HPC & Ilco cutters, so sourcing cutters isn't too bad, but as a hobbyist, it's very hard to find small parts.

The vise grip springs are very frail and they don't come by very easily.
WOT
 
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Location: (SFIC) USA

Postby Eyes_Only » 26 Apr 2008 23:42

With this machine you cut to code by the micrometer and not a direct way like the HPC right?
If a lock is a puzzle, then its key is the complete picture
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Postby WOT » 28 Apr 2008 1:09

Eyes_Only wrote:With this machine you cut to code by the micrometer and not a direct way like the HPC right?


Hi,
As a mechanically inclined, recreational key machine user, I have no experience with the HPC 1200, however I just read the manual and the theory of operation is exactly the same between the HPC1200 and the Framon #2. They're both very antiquated analog design.

The only difference is the read-out user interface. HPC uses mechanical linkage to amplify the movement in carriage to move the clock like read out needles. You change the backplate that corresponds to correct cut depths and position for each key system, however using a card that's graduated in root depth distance relative to starting point, it can be used just like a Framon too.

On framon, spacing is direct like an HPC 1200, but depth is manual. You insert the blank, refer to the manual for starting point, then you select the correct incremental space gauge. For Schlage, you turn the dial 4 times(200 mils) then manually dial in to 31 (200+31 = 231mils).

You then align the first line on the .156" spacing gauge.

Make the first cut depth by manually dialing in the depth, then use a lever to plunge the carriage forward until you hit a stop. On an HPC1200, you use the crank to directly progress the cutter until the needles reads the correct depth. On HPC1200, there is no stop, so if you overturn the crank, you'll overcut it, but on the Framon, if you set the depth too deep before plunging, you'll over cut it too, so neither is idiot proof.

After the first cut, you just turn the dial until the needle is aligned to the second line on the spacing indicator, but the resolution isn't too good, so if you want absolute precision, you'll need to use the indicator on the dial.

Framon has a demo video here
http://www.framon.com/fra2.html

You'll see testimonials on their page that Framon can do more out of the package while an HPC1200 can't without getting a different cutting wheel. This isn't true. The cut profile is determined by the cutting wheel profile and the HPC1200 and Framon wheels are directly compatible with each other. There's no difference between the HPC1200 and the Framon 2 in functionality other than the read-out interface.
WOT
 
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Postby WOT » 28 Apr 2008 2:20

Click each image for full size.
I'm not sure how sturdy the HPC's vise is, but the vise on the Framon is rather wimply made compared to an Ilco duplicator.
Image

Image

A small pressure you can apply with one finger along the black line flex the chassis enough to cause the cutter to cut deeper, so if its sitting on an uneven surface, the calibration might be affected.

Image
WOT
 
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Postby itisjustme1 » 22 Jun 2008 5:53

WOT,

It looks like the same vintage F1 I bought 10 years ago and it dates back to the 70's but it isi still a great machine that works very well for me.

I have not experienced the problem you have when applying pressure on the area you have lined in black.

I did buy the D&D manual from Framon and in the manual it tell you the main bearing should not be lubricated and if you want a copy of the manual let me know because the first section has all the care and setup in it.

If your F1 need this much attention I would without doubt send it back to Framon and for $80-$120 it will come back better tnen new.

I am thinking about sending mine back and have it gone over and then converted into a F2 for higher security keys. (if they are still offering the F2 conversion.
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