Finding the correct groove on a medeco

[jimmythelock]

Hi all.
Can I please have some help. Pondering, as I do occasionally, on a way to find the correct channel on a medeco. I thought of using a fine needle bent with a 90-deg tip to search along the pin axis to find the grooves. From the look and estimating the size of the channel (crypto.com) I think the tip of the needle should only find the correct groove and any fasle ones are too shallow. Once the correct groove is found, with the needle in it, it should not be too hard to pull/push on the pin to line it up to the sidebar teeth. Does anybody think this shall work?

I am thinking of getting a medeco as my next lock upgrade (getting the hang of security pins in other pin-tumbler locks and need some more challenge) but before I do I like to think of ways of picking them before I actually get them, I think it stretches the brain.

A second question has just popped into my head. When applying tension do the driving pins bind first, the sidebar or a mixture of both?

As I said I don't have an actual lock yet but any help would be appreciated.

Jimmy

[mcm757207]

I doubt you will be able to feel the grooves along side the pins. Picking a medeco even if it didn't have the sidebar, think mushroom pins and very very tight tollerances. Not to mention the nasty wards on some medeco keyways... and then you toss in the sidebar, and you have a lock that I doubt anyone on these forums can pick. I could very well be wrong, as there have been people known to pick them (probobly less than 100 in the entire world [estimate]), but not many. Medeco are even hard to drill out- they are all around excellent locks. Quality keyway control, extreme picking resistance, drill-resistance, and they are impossible to impression (i think lol). I'm not saying it's impossible to pick, just very difficult. Good luck.

[mcm757207]

...forgot to add.

This is a topic that I think belongs in the advanced forums, so I doubt you are going to get specifics about picking techniques here.

[Chucklz]

Further discussion does indeed belong in the advanced topic.

[Romstar]

Further discussion does indeed belong in the advanced topic.

I disagree completely, and fully.

The Medeco is a pin tumbler lock, not really all that different from any other pin tumber. Yes, there is the issue of the slants in the key, and the sidebar, but this in not a matter of sensitive information.

I have, and can pick Medeco and while I am no master at it, the more you do it, the easier it becomes.

There aren't really any special tools, maybe a few diamonds, or lifters with only a twist in the tip, and some decent knowledge of the lock and how it works is required.

I do produce slightly modified tools for picking the Medeco, and my pick gun is capable of manipulating these locks to a better degree than my original design.

Suffice it to say that there is nothing overly special, or unknown about these locks. It's all open and available for anyone who wants to look at the lock, and really practice picking the silly blighter.

Romstar

[HeadHunterCEO]

they can be drilled also

just crack out the hardened pins with a cold chisel

[Romstar]

they can be drilled also

just crack out the hardened pins with a cold chisel

Drilling in my opinion , while sometimes a valid option in a real lock-out situation does not fall under the category of NDE.

I just don't believe that Medeco locks are deserving of special consideration.

Romstar

[mbell]

I just don't believe that Medeco locks are deserving of special consideration.

I Do. Particularly when compared to a sandard 5 pin cylinder with no aditional security features.

[HeadHunterCEO]

they can be drilled also

just crack out the hardened pins with a cold chisel

Drilling in my opinion , while sometimes a valid option in a real lock-out situation does not fall under the category of NDE.

I just don't believe that Medeco locks are deserving of special consideration.

Romstar

i agree with you

they really are not so special.

your average joe isn't going to have what it takes (knowledge/equipment)to drill or pick these suckers within a reasonable amount of time anyway

if you sit in your arm chair and got a long time to pick it thats one thing

reality is that if you are in the trenches you don't have time to sit there and try to pick a lock like that. at $70 an hour labor they could buy another one in the time it might take you to pick it.

drilling is fast and inexpensive to the customer if you are deraling with something serious.

actually i just realised tha this is the difference between someone who plays with locks as a hobbie and someone who is a paid professional

[WhiteHat]

I doubt you will be able to feel the grooves along side the pins. Picking a medeco even if it didn't have the sidebar, think mushroom pins and very very tight tollerances. Not to mention the nasty wards on some medeco keyways... and then you toss in the sidebar, and you have a lock that I doubt anyone on these forums can pick. I could very well be wrong, as there have been people known to pick them (probobly less than 100 in the entire world [estimate]), but not many. Medeco are even hard to drill out- they are all around excellent locks. Quality keyway control, extreme picking resistance, drill-resistance, and they are impossible to impression (i think lol). I'm not saying it's impossible to pick, just very difficult. Good luck.

is that a challenge? it sounds like a challenge! when someone says that I
can't do something (and they're not trying to provoke me) then I just go
out and proove them wrong...... just reading your post made the my
adrenalin start flowing..... I'm going to pick a medeco just because I can!
ebay here I come.....

[Romstar]

[quote="mbell"I Do. Particularly when compared to a sandard 5 pin cylinder with no aditional security features.[/quote]

Sure, they are harder to pick, but we aren't talking about bypass methods here.

The Medco locks require no special tools to pick, they simply are what they are. Anyone with a good feel, some patience and knowledge of the locking mechanism can pick these silly things.

The major downfall is the way the sidebar is implemented. It is not at all similar to more modern systems that use the sidebar exclusively. That creates a serious security flaw that alows defeating of the sidebar mechanism.

On the other hand, newer systems do not have this flaw and require much more effort or just plain skill. It's not an easy thing to pick an Everest lock, or the Assa Twin, or the bi-lock. Quite simply, there is no easy way to set the pins in those locks. The Medeco was a great enhancement, but one hampered by it's own reliance on the preceeding mechanism.

Romstar

[jimmythelock]

Thank you all for the replies .

I did not realise that such a lock was considered to be such high security that it may be discussed only in the secure forum. I agree with Romstar, the way I see it is the medeco is a modified pin-tumbler and is really no different. I am sorry if this upsets anyone else who thinks otherwise

I thought of using a modified pick tip but just wondered about a more precise way of finding and lining up the pins.

Thank you all again.

Jimmy

[WhiteHat]

can we get the official word from the moderators about wether we can
discuss this type of lock? or if it will be moved? I have a bit to say about
them, I actually went to buy one a few days ago, but because of the shipping
that the guy wanted to charge I didn't end up getting it.... thought that I'd
bite the bullet and get one anyway... it should be a bit of fun.

[jimmythelock]

Yes I'd like to know if this can be discussed further as I have an idea of how to make a pick that can be used for lifting the pins as well as to rotate them.

Thank you
Jimmy

[Romstar]

My opinion on Medeco locks is as follows:

I believe that Medeco locks are classed as high security as much from their own publicity as from any UL rating, or advances in construction.

Yes, the average lock picker coming upon a Medeco lock without having studied one will most likely not be albe to open on in a timely fashion. The point however is that every bit of material about these locks is available directly from the company.

If you get the required diagrams from Medeco, or any other source for that matter the picking method become readily apparent.

Or, in other words there are no special tools, or secret knowledge, or anything required to pick these locks.

Only skill, patience and some ability to understand how a lock works.

Romstar