Why are "high security" locks uncommon in the US

[WOT]

The locks we can only discuss in "high security" section of this forum maybe high security by US standards, but they're probably more common in Europe.

Why are non pin-tumbler locks rather uncommon in the states?

You'll find laser cut type keys on import cars, some rental locker keys.

Medeco and Primus here and there, but anything beyond that is uncommon.

Kaba Penta, Abloy Protec and such are all European...

Do they have more lock manipulation related entries instead of American style ram-your-way-through?

[Jaakko]

Why are non pin-tumbler locks rather uncommon in the states?

To this I have no good answer, but I think it has to have something to do with the high price of high security locks like Abloy, Kaba etc. As an example, in here basically your only option is Abloy and the cheapest option is 80 EUR (160 USD) and you install it yourself Nowadays you can get Kaba also, but they are not widely used.

Do they have more lock manipulation related entries instead of American style ram-your-way-through?

In the other parts of Europe maybe, but as I'm from Finland, I can only state the Finnish view: There is basically no manipulation related entries (meaning picking), but a few decades ago some Classic locks were picked and not-deadlocking latches were a problem. Nowadays there are no such problems (atleast I hope)

[jpb06080]

It might have something to do with the fact that import costs make it that much more expensive, since none of the high security brands other than medeco are made domestically. However, I think its more than that. However, I don't know what it is. Interesting question.

[bumber]

there around if you look for them, but like jaakko I can only speak for myself Im an american, I wouldn't spend more than $20 at the most to secure my door when a window is within arms reach of that same door...

As far as everything else that I would use a lock on like ATV, mower stuff like that is in my shed inside a fence that has two big, loud, mean looking dogs running free inside the fence to eat people that come in unwelcomed...

uh, oh yea so the only reason I would buy a high security lock would be to try picking/bypassing/messing with it...other than that "it keeps the dishonest people around for dog food"

[freakparade3]

It's because America is a land where we leave $40,000 cars sitting outside because the garage is full of junk we don't want, and we believe if we are good people nothing bad will happen to us or our loved ones.

[mh]

Out of the many reasons, there is one very simple reason for Germany:

The euro-cylinder format is used in 99% of all doors and makes it really easy for the end user to go to a shop and buy a replacement. Just one screw to remove, no adjustments, no painting, etc.
So the end users can make simple choices for the level of security they want for their cylinders.

Cheers,
mh

[dmux]

and americans are cheap and dont know any better but thats why we talk about this to make it known that not all locks are the same

[Squelchtone]

and americans are cheap and dont know any better but thats why we talk about this to make it known that not all locks are the same

amen. I stood at Home Depot in the lock aisle for about 10 minutes one day trying to pick out a new lock to work on, and 4 out of 5 people walked the aisle, stopped at the $10 Defiant deadbolt and bought it. It was tragic. I actually stopped a guy and said, you know those locks aren't very good and he actually said, you mean they can be bumped? I was pleasantly surprised that consumers in my area have actually heard about bumping. Turned out he was just getting a hallway passage set, so I figure, Defiant, Kwikset, Schlage, if there's no keyhole, who cares what he bought.

I live in an affluent suburb and from talking to my various co workers it turns out many don't even lock their doors. Their way of thinking is "why bother locking it, if they want it, they'll just break a window and turn the latch. And I don't mean they don't lock their doors while they're at home or at night. The relative safety of suburbia has made them complacent. A co worker straight up told me her front door was unlocked while we were both at work. Yeah, I'm shaking my head just like you are right now. sigh.

I think locksmiths in America have for the most part failed to educate people, and the big box stores such as Lowe's and Home Depot just want to sell the most product possible, without any regard to public safety or security.

It would seem that if you work somewhere with nice locks, or are a small business owner and have nice locks because of either employee key control or because your store or bar was broken into, you're more apt to be willing to spend money on nicer locks for both your business and your home.

I had no idea that the Schlage deadbolt locks at Home Depot are not the same Schlage deadbolt locks my locksmith sells. I tried to fit a Medeco schlage style cylinder into my Home Depot Schlage deadbolt and it wouldn't fit, I was frustrated and went to the locksmith who in person did a fine job educating me. I said above that locksmiths have failed in educating the masses, and what I mean by that is that they failed in the last few years. I think before the big box stores, people actually went to a local hardware store, which often had an on staff locksmith, or went to a n actual locksmith who had a storefront and made good choices about the level of security they could afford. But as large retail stores take over that position, no one calls a locksmith anymore unless like I said they own a business, need to fit a lock and they're not a do it yourselfer, or they need a lock picked or drilled or repaired. My point is that locksmiths could and should try to be more proactive right now with better advertising and marketing. It seems at least where I live that the people always go to the locksmith for help, the locksmith isn't publicly visible coming to the people with new products and suggestions. I don't think I've ever heard a local radio spot or seen a local tv spot for a locksmith unless it was AAA vehicle lockout.

I think it would provide great peace of mind to the husband and wife and kids living in a nice house with a picket fence to know that the lock they purchased from the locksmith instead of the retail store has duplication restriction, so when they're away for a week on Cape Cod, that greasy contractor who added a window to their den, didn't make a copy of their Kwikset or Schlage key on one of his many trips to Home Depot, and isn't busy cleaning out their 50" Plasma TV, or going through the Mrs's unmentionables. Peace of mind. That's what it's all about.

/diatribe
Squelchtone

[StabbyJoe]

not locking your door is dumb. From a burglar's perspective, you pick the easiest, fastest house to do with the most profit... if theres a house that has an alarm, dogs and a locked door, and next to it is a house which may as well have it's front door swinging gently in the breeze, A smart burglar will pick house #2... Kick their asses!

I'd say the answer to the original question is a combination of aforementioned factors... the interchangable plug thing is an interesting idea behind having similar locks... hmm...

[LockNewbie21]

Simple put, In the US security is making your house better than the neihbors so they get broken into and you can laugh about it. In some places others just by guns instead.. not smart but oyu get the idea.

It sounds funny but people will blame it on gas cost's to.. until someone emptys there gas tank... then they refill it and b*tch about it.

So it's not the locksmith.. it's attitudes and believe me.. 100 dollar locks are boring.. just buy a 3000 dollar plasma TV instead

[Jaakko]

So it's not the locksmith.. it's attitudes and believe me.. 100 dollar locks are boring.. just buy a 3000 dollar plasma TV instead

By the way, this an interesting point: People buy all sorts of expensive items and many change mobile phones "just because there is this new model available", but then they think that a lock lasts forever, I mean grandpa bought it from the Great Exhibit in late 1800's, it shall work for awhile still

[greyman]

The locks we can only discuss in "high security" section of this forum maybe high security by US standards, but they're probably more common in Europe.

Why are non pin-tumbler locks rather uncommon in the states?

You'll find laser cut type keys on import cars, some rental locker keys.

Medeco and Primus here and there, but anything beyond that is uncommon.

Kaba Penta, Abloy Protec and such are all European...

Do they have more lock manipulation related entries instead of American style ram-your-way-through?

I think you have to look at the history of lock development in the various countries. Yale revolutionized the US security industry with the pin tumbler lock. Later Medeco got the lions share. I suspect many OS companies have tried and failed to break into the huge US residential/commercial market. In Europe, every country had its own lock companies and until fairly recently they had their own base in each country. This is still the case in certain parts of the UK, with Bramah and Banham in London for instance, not to mention Chubb, which brought lever locks into existence. In France, axial locks are very common, but Fichet has the lions share of top-end security. So I suppose it's really down to parochialism and customer base until a multinational rams their own technology down everyone's throat (not mentioning any names - MulTLock)

[Ghosted]

The locks we can only discuss in "high security" section of this forum maybe high security by US standards, but they're probably more common in Europe.

Why are non pin-tumbler locks rather uncommon in the states?

You'll find laser cut type keys on import cars, some rental locker keys.

Medeco and Primus here and there, but anything beyond that is uncommon.

Kaba Penta, Abloy Protec and such are all European...

Do they have more lock manipulation related entries instead of American style ram-your-way-through?

My frickin highschool has primus locks you don't know what you are talking about lol....

[Squelchtone]

The locks we can only discuss in "high security" section of this forum maybe high security by US standards, but they're probably more common in Europe.

Why are non pin-tumbler locks rather uncommon in the states?

You'll find laser cut type keys on import cars, some rental locker keys.

Medeco and Primus here and there, but anything beyond that is uncommon.

Kaba Penta, Abloy Protec and such are all European...

Do they have more lock manipulation related entries instead of American style ram-your-way-through?

My frickin highschool has primus locks you don't know what you are talking about lol....

I guess your high school doesn't have reading comprehension classes. He did say Medeco and Primus (can be found) here and there...

lurn 2 read kthx. =)

Squelchtone

[raimundo]

well, there are the abloy type bike U locks all over the place, and the best lock systems are actually very good and very common in institutions and large buildings. Japanese locks used to be the worst, German locks the Best. as experienced on their autos. But in Japan, its on the honor system, they don't even use bike locks do they?
Medeco makes some padlocks that while they have a very secure brass lock, they have a thin shackle, the only reason to own one of these locks is so that you can feel assured no one has gotten in without flaging it by leaving a cut lock on the gate.
The uninformed may be buying the lock on the theory that its the thing that will be broken if they have a burglar, of course people on this site would say thats naive.
I was once installing an adams rite two inch swing bolt in a wharehouse with lofts for bands and such, there was a problem with breakins, and the guy Im doing it for, suggests that I put the lock at typical door height, a height that is easy for them to kick at. while I had sold him on the strength of the deadbolt, and believed it myself, I explained that to put the lock a foot or more higher, would make it more likely that anyone kicking at the lock would fall backwards, and kicking where the lock wasnt would just make it easier on the door frame and door to resist. His idea was that he would put a strong bolt at the point where they could make the strongest attack, I still believe in strength where the opposition is weak, the whole hardheaded lockhorns idea is stupid.
MH tell how euro cylinders can be easily switched out by the consumer, that is good for the consumer but probably leaves locksmiths poorer. the real flaw in the euro cylinder is the breakaway middle. That could be redesigned, possibly by a supportive mounting that would make the cylinders harder to break, or by many means that require more bulk at that screw, or even an ability to flex without breaking, like a chain at the critical point.