Side Wards

by **granz** » 11 Jul 2008 18:10

While picking, resting the bottom of the pick on the upper side ward (where the pins usually rest) does not work because the pick is likely going to be too high. Some of the low setting pins will have their driver pins pushed passed the shear line and they'll likely bind there.

On the other hand, trying to wedge the pick sideways between the upper side ward and a resting pin is impossible because there is not enough width in the keyway to approach the bottom of the pin at an angle..

What's the recommended way to pick a pin without hitting other pins with your pick (possibly unsetting them) or having the side wards get in the way?

by **ToolyMcgee** » 11 Jul 2008 18:37

There is some disscussion on it here. http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=37234
Hope that helps.

by **granz** » 11 Jul 2008 19:00

That thread is about how a pick is to be held in one's hand. Nothing at all to do with where in the lock the pick is used.

by **granz** » 11 Jul 2008 19:12

Another way to explain this problem is this:

Say you have pin#1 set.

It's set low to the side ward. This would correspond to a deep groove in the key that is used to open the lock.

Now you need to get in to pick pins 4-7....but you don't want to touch pin 1 or you'll risk unsetting it by bumping it, or worse yet, moving the driver pin up past the shear line and causing it to false set.

How do you get around pin#1? I don't see any picks with curved hooks in them so I don't think that's the solution. Although I'm tempted to curve my picks now.

by **robotmaxtron** » 11 Jul 2008 19:41

granz wrote:Another way to explain this problem is this:

Say you have pin#1 set.

It's set low to the side ward. This would correspond to a deep groove in the key that is used to open the lock.

Now you need to get in to pick pins 4-7....but you don't want to touch pin 1 or you'll risk unsetting it by bumping it, or worse yet, moving the driver pin up past the shear line and causing it to false set.

How do you get around pin#1? I don't see any picks with curved hooks in them so I don't think that's the solution. Although I'm tempted to curve my picks now.

There are many different varieties of hook picks, some with very deep curves like the long hook and the peterson reach style hooks.

by **ToolyMcgee** » 11 Jul 2008 19:46

You can bend your picks, but your better off not to tempt fate and possibly make them brittle. This problem is why I use alot of deep reach or Falle style hooks. Sometimes a short hook will dip down before it comes back up to allow extra space to set a high pin behind a low set pin. I can't remember what the style is called at the moment... it looks like the one on the far right of the top link in this post
http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?p=305339#305339
Anyway alot of difficulty setting pins behind a low pin can be just switching tension to the top of the keyway so you have more working room.

by **Gordon Airporte** » 11 Jul 2008 22:51

Make sure your wrench is in the top of the keyway - in front of the first pin. That gives you plenty of space under the pins to maneuver (unless you're picking some European lock with an insane parasentric keyway.) The wrench must have a very very short blade.
As mentioned, it also helps to have some longer hooks or reach picks in case you have a really nasty keying. One of my favorite picks is a regular short hook with the tip of the hook raised in a bump. (Instead of the part that touches the pins being flat, it's a semicircle.)

by **granz** » 12 Jul 2008 10:25

I usually hold my wrench in the top of the keyway in front of the pins.
But I still find it difficult to get to the back pins without touching the front pins. I have to find a way to get my pick right under the pin and atop the side ward that the pin is sitting on. That requires going into the middle of the keyway beside the side ward, and then tilting the pick (rotating it in my hand) to make it face the pins. It's tough to get under the pin to lift it though.

I have a Schlage f series lock and a jacknife pick set.

by **ToolyMcgee** » 12 Jul 2008 16:58

granz wrote:I usually hold my wrench in the top of the keyway in front of the pins.
But I still find it difficult to get to the back pins without touching the front pins. I have to find a way to get my pick right under the pin and atop the side ward that the pin is sitting on. That requires going into the middle of the keyway beside the side ward, and then tilting the pick (rotating it in my hand) to make it face the pins. It's tough to get under the pin to lift it though.

I have a Schlage f series lock and a jacknife pick set.

Sounds like I can't give you any advice if it is a SC1 keyway and you already have top tension. Practice? I don't heard anything good about the feedback on the jackknife, so that might be a problem. Especially if it what you are learning with.

by **granz** » 12 Jul 2008 18:51

ToolyMcgee wrote:You can bend your picks, but your better off not to tempt fate and possibly make them brittle. I can't remember what the style is called at the moment... it looks like the one on the far right of the top link in this post
http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?p=305339#305339
Anyway alot of difficulty setting pins behind a low pin can be just switching tension to the top of the keyway so you have more working room.

Not sure what the scale is there but those hooks look to be about 1cm from base of hook to top. If you put the hook at the bottom of the keyway, it would reach all the way to the top of the keyway giving no room for maneuvering the pick. I think I need to trim my picks down so that the base of the pick to the top of the pick is a total of about 4mm

by **granz** » 12 Jul 2008 20:53

So I bit the bullet and decided to risk trimming one of my picks.

Went well.

Here's the sketched result:
http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o358 ... rimmed.jpg

by **ToolyMcgee** » 12 Jul 2008 23:57

Now, I see what you are talking about. Yes, if the shafts are good enough steel to withstand the abuse then they need to be thinner than almost 5mm thick. Hope it works out for you.

by **granz** » 13 Jul 2008 0:06

They seem to be holding up well. I can apply as much vertical pressure as my fingers/wrist can exert without even causing the picks to deform.

Seems to me that the picks were unnecessarily robust to begin with.

I might grind one down to the point where I can just deflect it with my finger/wrist pressure and see how thin that is. Then grind all the others down to just 0.5mm thicker than that.

I'm still now sure how I'm going to get underneath a low set pin#1 to attack a high setting pin#5.

by **granz** » 13 Jul 2008 0:34

Here's a diagram of the situation:
http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o358 ... keyway.jpg

by **ToolyMcgee** » 13 Jul 2008 0:44

That's a good diagram, but know what you are talking about. To give you an example one of my smaller pick shafts is 1.19mm. If you keep at it and vary your tension to find good binding and setting tensions it will open. Do you have the key? Do you know if it has security pins? The warding is not the main problem.

Side Wards

Side Wards

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