Re-training as a locksmith. UK based questions.

[Neil_1li]

Have you got the ELCAS funding as well as your resettlement grant? If so the MLA are now on the service provider list for ELCAS (Anvil are no longer on this list).

Yes I'm on the higher tier ELC so I have three lots of £2000 to spend plus 6 weeks re-settlement.

As of today Anvil are still showing ELCAS approved:

www.enhancedlearningcredits.com/mssql/s ... &Submit=Go

[Dean W]

WOW. Thats scary mate. I was told they were taken off the list as there were a number of complaints from service personnel about them and that the MLA were now added as up until very recently An,il were the only company for Locksmiths on the ELCAS list, leaving you no choice but to go with them (ELCAS funding only). Anyway, my advice is to STAY CLEAR OF ANVIL.

Personally, I would use my ELCAS for Locksmith courses (you can get the MLA general and opening course, plus the exam out of the first years funding - 2k), but your personal contyribution will be around £450 as well (80%) and I would use my resettlement grant for something else such as tiling or whatever as some form of fall back.

In addition you maybe able to get extra time off in the form of a work placement for a few months (if you have done a full service in the Army). If you have then write to all the local locksmiths, telling them you have gone or done whatever locksmith course and looking for work experience at NO COST TO THEM for a few weeks. You will also need to tell them you are Forces and NOT SETTLING IN THEIR AREA SO WILL NOT BE IN COMPETITION WITH THEM.

In addition get yourself on this:

http://www.paxton.co.uk/installers/supp ... e=training

Its free, and worth an intro/insight

Good luck. DONT GO WITH ANVIL.

[Neil_1li]

Thanks a lot Dean, what worries me is that the majority of ex-forces lads will just assume one course is the same as the other have a quick look on the ELCAS site and pick the course closest to home, for me that would have been Anvil. I'm glad I did a little research before committing so much time and TAXPAYERS money into, essentially, nothing.

You have almost summed up my re-settlement plan in one paragraph there, I'm using my 3 lots of ELC for locksmithing courses over the next three years and my actual re-settlement grant for C+E. I already have Counter Balance FLT and various other qualifications so hopefully I can find work on civvi street with those while I pursue the locksmith side of life!

I'm currently based in Germany so that rules out asking my local locksmith for a work placement however I'm being medically discharged (nothing too serious, thankfully!) I'll be back in the UK just after Xmas on sick leave so I can, hopefully, carry out a work placement then bofore the Army wages stop and I need to start putting bread on the table.

Thanks again to all for their input to this thread, it's been a huge help so far.

[toomush2drink]

Hands up anyone in the uk who got work experience with a locksmith ?

I get loads of people asking me the same thing and turn them all down.Lets face what proof has any locksmith got your not going to set up in competition against them ?.
The market is saturated and there is no way im going to let anyone see how or where i get my work from by working for me for "experience", it would be a plain foolish move.

[Neil_1li]

Hands up anyone in the uk who got work experience with a locksmith ?

I get loads of people asking me the same thing and turn them all down.Lets face what proof has any locksmith got your not going to set up in competition against them ?.
The market is saturated and there is no way im going to let anyone see how or where i get my work from by working for me for "experience", it would be a plain foolish move.

That's a very good point however I intend to write to locksmiths in South Yorkshire (where my parents live) and possibly Kent (where my brother lives) whilst I live in the North East as I can stop with them for a week or two, at least that should put some minds at rest!

Neil.

[Dean W]

True, not everyone will give you a break through fear that you will become the opposition, it takes a bit of trust and kindness on the part of the Locksmith. Do not be put off. DO IT. I wrote to around 20 Locksmiths, 3 repleied via email or writing saying they could not help (for a variety of reasons), but one guy said YES. He gave me unlimited time with him, all I needed to do was get away from work. It turned out he was ex Army from the 80's. My point is that someone may help.

Also if you do the MLA courses, that may open a few doors.

Dont forget about these as well. - http://www.timpsonlocksmiths.co.uk/work.htm

They are a family business and recomed the MLA courses, so if you have already done them, you are saving them money already. Also they may give you experience or better still a job, so you get a bit of grounding.

[toomush2drink]

When did you get this experience dean w ? Was it this year ? Things have changed so much in the locksmith market in the past year.

Timpsons will give you work so they can build up the work in that area and then pay a fulltime employee to do the work thus not needing the subcontractor any more.Effectively you help the competition get stronger and lose a source of income once they are established.

The biggest problem newbies face is knowing how to get work.Sure gain the all the experience you can but that wont make the phone ring.

Look on ebay at the amount that are selling up their tools,also google locksmiths in the areas you intend working. Ie you live in manchester try "locksmiths manchester" and look at how many there are in the results. To get a website on page one of google takes a lot of work or ££ and google prefers older sites over newer domain names so its an uphill struggle from day one.Look at how many are nationals who just sub out the work to those with not enough work of their own.
This is only their online presence and they also spend big on yell.com,yp,thompsons etc

What im getting at is thoroughly do your home work because 6k is hardly anything to get going with now.4 years ago i would have said differently but its changed so much within the last 4 years.You need to spend serious money to get noticed and gain work as a start up as word of mouth takes time to develop.

You are going into business first and are a locksmith second,something many fail to appreciate.
Even at present im looking a two year projects to gain more work in the longterm just like the nationals are doing.

Im just trying to get across the reality before yet another loses their hard earned wedge so at least this way you know the reality of what you are about to do.

[Dean W]

Yes the free on the job training was recent. The 6k he has is for training only, which I think is adequate and not for tools, advertising etc. Of course he should do his homework and have a plan B if it does not work out for him, as ultimately he will have to pay the mortgage.

The tools you will need will cost quite a bit and dont come cheap, especially if you starrt looking at doing modern mortors.

There are a lot of people who fall at the first hurdle, doing the 2 day course and expecting to know it all and earn 50k, well that aint going to happen. I am still learning, so its an ongoing process.

Good luch with your venture if you decide to do it, and if I can help in anyway with advice etc, please PM me.

[taylorgdl]

Look up taylorgord on this forum ex navy submariner for his sins, an excellent lockie and good safe tech these days, in your area of the country also , helpfull and will advise you honestly and give you the heads up in the area, oldboy called commando79 is also ex military and knows the pitfalls faced by servicemen looking to get in the door of this industry.

Just a quick heads up, as I'm off out in a minute.

I'm based just north of newcastle, but the area i cover for general locksmithing is darlington to berwick.

Thats about a 1hr 15mins north and south.

Warrants and safes I go further afield.

I spent around £15K in the first year of trading, and around £18K in the second.

I spend £2.5K a year in the yellow pages.

I have a few contracts for local estate agents etc

And the past few weeks I have still been quiet.

You will be competing against (me and two other ICL members), plus the bigger local companies such as, newcastle lock and safe, bradleys, charnleys, all the other smaller companies/new start ups, plus the nationals, Dyno, reactfast, able, absolute, timpsons, key edge.

That comes to about 10 pages in the YP this year.

Plus you've got all the joiners/plumbers/taxi drivers who do a bit on the side.

[lockey1963]

really not a pretty picture , and the reason almost all new start ups go under in 1st year, but a true and honest appraisal of what lies ahead.

[Neil_1li]

Thanks again to all who have contributed to this thread, it has been quite the eye opener!

In answer to a few points raised:

The £6k (in actual fact it's £7.2k with my contribution) mentioned is for training only, spread over three years. At the very least I won't be entering the market with a 2 day course and a power drill to my name!

This three year "training gap" should give me the time to built up tools, experience and money. I'm provisionally aiming to be trading by 2010/11.

I don't intend to jump into this with with my eyes closed (hence my post here!) however there must be some space available in the market, people must retire, emigrate, peg it, etc. thus creating vacancies to be filled by trained newcomers.

Once again thanks to all who have posted.

Regards, Neil.

[toomush2drink]

Thanks again to all who have contributed to this thread, it has been quite the eye opener!

In answer to a few points raised:

The £6k (in actual fact it's £7.2k with my contribution) mentioned is for training only, spread over three years. At the very least I won't be entering the market with a 2 day course and a power drill to my name!

This three year "training gap" should give me the time to built up tools, experience and money. I'm provisionally aiming to be trading by 2010/11.

I don't intend to jump into this with with my eyes closed (hence my post here!) however there must be some space available in the market, people must retire, emigrate, peg it, etc. thus creating vacancies to be filled by trained newcomers.

Once again thanks to all who have posted.

Regards, Neil.

How are you going to get experience if your not trading ? Its a catch22, you need experience to get anywhere but to get experience you have to get out there and do jobs on a regular basis.getting regular work in this current market place is hard.

In 3 years time the market will have changed even more with so many new products entering the market place.

[taylorgdl]

On the other hand, in about 6-12 months with the current conditions in the UK, a lot of the drillers and new set ups will go bust as there just isn't enough of a market at present.

I get about 1-2 emergency calls (yes that's ONE or TWO) a week, because there is so much competition for it. Its all you're trained for on most of these short courses.

That and everyone is undercutting the previous guy, so people are now getting callouts for £25-£35. Ridiculous, you can't make a living on that, unless you then drill the lock and charge another £50 for the new "high security" bird cylinder.

Even heard of one guy only supplying the lock with one key, and charging extra for the other two (that come as standard in the pack!)

[79commando]

Another problem you are going to encounter is the majority of Property maintenance companies floating about and large Nationals going after smaller contracts.

In short they approach say a Nationwide Estate Agent chain. The majority of these Estate Agents are in larger towns and cities and some of the employees know ther local locksmith so use him/her (may be Boot Necks on the site ).

Up pops the National Property Company who aproach the Estate Agents head office and offer 24hr lock cover to all there offices with one bill sent every month to cover all call outs. The head office realise that as opposed to paying hundreds of locksmiths every month, chasing cheques, tallying up invoices etc they now pay one cheque which tallies up with the list of jobs, suddenly days worth of admin is sorted in one hr.

No more using the local locksmith and 10% of his income lost. Multiply this by the likes of Woolworths, Boots and all the other chains and suddenly you are just left with the local domestic market.

Along comes Insurance company X who offers a package, £25 per month to cover your Plumbing, Locks and Central heating and even more of the market disappears.

As you can see the market is not straight forward and is forever changing. Any muppet can set up a web site to advertise in your area even if they are based in America and when the work comes in someone will subcontract it for pennies.

I've known too many people struggle in this profession. Without a sound business plan you will struggle. Very few locksmiths survive on lock work alone.

On another note some locksmiths are getting smarter and are now passing work between each other to prevent new starts from getting it. With an average locksmiths expences running at about £600 per month it won't take many quiet weeks to put a new start under.

[bruce hall]

The problem is that i think there are as many new start ups each month as there is people packing in.
All looking for the thousand pound a week they were told they could make.