MAINTAINING SAFES

[prag]

We recently did a safe that was unlocked and still did not want to open. The handle eventually came off. We tried different methods that I can't discuss and lots of frustating hours of work but eventually got it open.

This was an old Chubb safe that I estimate about 40 + yrs old.
When we opened the coverplate of the door, we were extreemely surprised. Firstly the bolt holding the handle had worked itself out. Secondly, 6 of the bolt holding the bolt (there is 3 bolts) had also worked 'itself' loose.

If this safe was maintained on a regular basis, this would not have happened. For instance we spent a full day trying to solve the problem ie.R250 X 6 hrs of work= R1.500.00. Trust me we spent more than 6 hrs of time on that safe. But if they had maintained the safe I think it should of taken us maybe an hour or two to strip,clean, grease , replace all worn parts and reassemble costing maybe R500 -R600. In my opinion, as a business owner, the second option is more economical and less stressfull in the long run.

Like my mentor say "if its not broken it not a priority"

Do you actively offer this service and what rates do you charge for time and parts. Another question about safes, do you stock safes and what sizes of safe do you keep. I can get a few older safes like the category safes for a good prices but moving the stuff is the only problem.

[lunchb0x]

most of the ones I did where for a contract for defense working of the Chubb manifoils and LG 66E, these had to be serviced every year i think it was and we would have a sticker on the front of the safe with the date of when it was last serviced and who did it, we would have spare parts and whole locks for these, a for other locks most of the safes where I lived had a S&G 3 wheel on it so we would just keep spares of them, and rarely we would have to order anything else though it would only take a couple of days to get it in.

We would stock mostly CMI and chubb safes, sized ranging from small inground and the CMI homeguard up to the CMI S2 I think it is, only a couple of times a year would we need anything bigger so we would order it in, there are too many sizes and types that its hard and expensive to keep a good variety of safes, at one ofthe places I worked the boss would only get the really cheap ones because customers don't want to spend alot of money to protect their stuff.

As for labour I think it was around $150AUS per hour, for servicing, openings and repairs would be quoted based of $150 P/H + a couple of extra hours to cover your self, and parst would be quoted after the safe is opened as you dont alway know what is wrong with it till it is open.

[MacGnG1]

sure if you offered a safe maintenance service customers would buy it. after reading this, if i had a company safe i would get it.

[prag]

Just today we were chatting again about this topic. What we are planning to do is to visit all the business and factory etc to offer our locksmithing services but more importantly, the safe maintenance side of it.

We agreed that trust will be a challenge. Crime is high in my country and people are not just going to trust just any stranger to look at their safe.

The plan is to make little identification card, either like drivers license or ones that can be pinned to the front of our shirts. This will have a id size foto, name and work details. We do have uniforms with the company name and telephone number on it. So that should be a plus.

The other aspect we chatted about was to have a covering letter detailing our history and jobs that can be done and those that have been undertaken. This we can leave with potential customers or people that is in charge of maintenance.

We still need to put allot of attention to this project so, any thoughts you might have will help us.

Thanx in advance

[fsdhy]

This is a perfect example of why you call a SAFE TECHNICIAN and not a LOCKSMITH to do safe work. The only tools locksmiths usually own for safe servicing is a change key. They get a call to change a combination, do it and leave. They don't notice any emerging problems.


This is exactly why we don't do simple "combination changes", we do "servicing and maintenance". We service the boltwork, lock and then change the combination. We write any issues on the customer's bill, if they choose not to pay to have them fixed. So if they call back in 6 months saying "you worked on my safe xx months ago and now it won't open" we have proof that they were told of any issues.

We have a set per hour labour rate, which stays the same whether we are doing access control, safes or commercial/residential. However, we do charge fees, such as 30$ for safe servicing (plus an hour's labour)... etc

[prag]

This is the safe that we worked on. The safe was clearly never maintained.

I do however need to appologise for the quality of the fotos. I did not have my digital camera that day so I used my phone camera.



This is a Chubb safe. When we moved it the amount of rust that was left behind was amazing. We joked that it is a wonder the safe still had a bottom but it has second inner portion or layer made of harden concrete.



When the cover was removed we noticed that virtually every bolt had come loose thus making it harder to turn the handle. Before the safe finally 'stopped' opening, the users were tapping it open with a rubber mallet. Shame she was going to be blamed for the whole fiasco until we mentioned that it was a lack of maintenance and not her fault




All sorted out with the bolts inplace , tightened and greased up. Ready for the next 100 years . Judging by when these clients last maintained it.

[Legacy712]

Just curious...

Why do you think the safe mechanism was in such bad shape? Is it extremely humid there? Was it physically abused? Did you ask the customer if they had been having problems with it, slowly over time?

[prag]

Legacy712 wrote

Why do you think the safe mechanism was in such bad shape? Is it extremely humid there? Was it physically abused? Did you ask the customer if they had been having problems with it, slowly over time?

This safe was in a fast food shop but I don't think it was the humidity played such a great role in malfunction of the mechanism. It could definetly help with the rust process

I think it was not maintained for a looooong time. The bolts, with time "unscrewed" or loosen and just put more stress on the other bolts thus causing a malfuction in the end. The previous time it was opened was with a rubber mallet and that could be the provebial hair that broke the camel's back.

[Johnny P]

This is a perfect example of why you call a SAFE TECHNICIAN and not a LOCKSMITH to do safe work. The only tools locksmiths usually own for safe servicing is a change key. They get a call to change a combination, do it and leave. They don't notice any emerging problems.


This is exactly why we don't do simple "combination changes", we do "servicing and maintenance". We service the boltwork, lock and then change the combination. We write any issues on the customer's bill, if they choose not to pay to have them fixed.

As a locksmith, I take just a little offense to your statement. I am a locksmith first, but I also do safework.

When I get called to change a safe combo, if I have changed the combo within the past 5 or 6 months, all I do is change the combo.

If it has been a year since I changed the combo or have never seen this particular safe before, then I remove the back cover of the lock, and remove and service everything in the lock. This includes the wheel pack, the lever, the bolt and detent and lightly lubricate the bearing surfaces. Then I replace everything and change the combo. Then I check the bolt works and lubricate the bearing surfaces.

Check the combo 4 times for myself and then have the customer check the combo before closing and locking the safe.

I attended a Penetration Party and the instructor, Dave McOmie, told us of one individual who became expert at opening safes via penetration and had a pretty good business going. Problem is, he only opened safes via penetration and never learned the basics.

One day, this man's biggest customer asked him to change the combo and he wasn't able to do so. He had never learned the basic and had no isea how to change the combo. Didn't even have a change key. He also lost the customer for any future jobs because the customer wanted someone who could do it all.

This guy in the story called himself a safeman and did nothing else. I call myself a locksmith and do it all, but I've trained in all aspects of safework from changing combos to servicing the locks and bolt work, to manipulation and finally to penetration - but I'm still a locksmith who does other, more mundane, locksmith work.

[Legacy712]

Just a thought, but I suppose you could compare locksmiths with auto mechanics.

Most auto mechanics can do all of the "normal" stuff to maintain a car, like brake jobs, ball joints, alternators and such. However, not all auto mechanics can tear down an engine or automatic transmission and completely rebuild them. A Master Mechanic can do it all.

Locksmiths are similar. They should all be able to do the standard chores, but when it comes to safes, some can do it all, including tear down and rebuilding, while others may only change combinations. In fact, this may have a bearing on who your customers are - residential/apartments or commercial businesses.

Many fields are like that, where you have those with a somewhat more limited proficiency and others with a wide area of expertise. Whatever your level of expertise, you have to keep current on it all.

[arris]

This is a perfect example of why you call a SAFE TECHNICIAN and not a LOCKSMITH to do safe work. The only tools locksmiths usually own for safe servicing is a change key. They get a call to change a combination, do it and leave. They don't notice any emerging problems.


This is exactly why we don't do simple "combination changes", we do "servicing and maintenance". We service the boltwork, lock and then change the combination. We write any issues on the customer's bill, if they choose not to pay to have them fixed.

As a locksmith, I take just a little offense to your statement. I am a locksmith first, but I also do safework.

When I get called to change a safe combo, if I have changed the combo within the past 5 or 6 months, all I do is change the combo.

If it has been a year since I changed the combo or have never seen this particular safe before, then I remove the back cover of the lock, and remove and service everything in the lock. This includes the wheel pack, the lever, the bolt and detent and lightly lubricate the bearing surfaces. Then I replace everything and change the combo. Then I check the bolt works and lubricate the bearing surfaces.

Check the combo 4 times for myself and then have the customer check the combo before closing and locking the safe.

I attended a Penetration Party and the instructor, Dave McOmie, told us of one individual who became expert at opening safes via penetration and had a pretty good business going. Problem is, he only opened safes via penetration and never learned the basics.

One day, this man's biggest customer asked him to change the combo and he wasn't able to do so. He had never learned the basic and had no isea how to change the combo. Didn't even have a change key. He also lost the customer for any future jobs because the customer wanted someone who could do it all.

This guy in the story called himself a safeman and did nothing else. I call myself a locksmith and do it all, but I've trained in all aspects of safework from changing combos to servicing the locks and bolt work, to manipulation and finally to penetration - but I'm still a locksmith who does other, more mundane, locksmith work.

I also agree to this i am a locksmith but all safes i have done we have taken the back of an serviced it etc..

altho i am shocked at that safe as most old safes i have done i.e did one the other week a ratner i think it was must have been 100 years old, but every bolt was solid, never had anything with any loose, only problem i find is old big safes look the part till you get the door of then they leave me in disapointment as are very simple...

[Engineer]

Funny it should be mentioned about rusty safes. It could be coincidence, but just recently, I've only seen really rusty ones.

I don't "do" safes, at least not yet, as I don't know enough about them. I have just kept an eye open for them as I go about my normal daily stuff. I always used to think they would not have rusted very easily, but either they do, or people abuse them terribly...

I'm not sure if this next bit should be in the business section or not, but it's just another coincidence really.

I've recently bought a load of inkjet-printable magnetic sheets from eBay. They're not very expensive if you shop around. I've been playing with them and they are great fun. Needless to say, it soon got to around to what could I do with them, that was "locky".

Well, I'm still working on that, but it just occured to me as I read this post, that safes are nice steel surfaces for magnets. So how about printing off a load of magnetic "business cards"? and distributing them to busnesses who might have a safe, but not a long-term maintenance contract?

Just off the top of my head (and bearing in mind the rusty safes), how about something like:

Look after your safe - For me to protect your valuables, I need an occasional bit of T.L.C.

(then your contact details)

Now your "zinger" like "If it takes a key, call me!".

Just a thought, but you might also be able to offset it against tax as an advertising expense?

[prag]

Engineer wrote

Look after your safe - For me to protect your valuables, I need an occasional bit of T.L.C.

(then your contact details)

Now your "zinger" like "If it takes a key, call me!".

Great ideas. Keep 'em comming

[lunchb0x]

Well, I'm still working on that, but it just occured to me as I read this post, that safes are nice steel surfaces for magnets. So how about printing off a load of magnetic "business cards"? and distributing them to busnesses who might have a safe, but not a long-term maintenance contract?

where I used to work we would put a sticker on the outside of the safe with the company contact details on it and write the date that it was last serviced, and who serviced it, this way when something goes wrong with the safe and the customer looks at, they would see the phone number of who to call.