Stronger than any deadbolt?!

[n2oah]

Even though a six pin schlage security lock is not considered "high security" what about the fact that it has a lockout button. When this button is engaged the keyway and everything dealing with the cylinder portion of the lock is essentially inaccessible/blocked/turned off. The security is then provided by the deadbolt portion of the lock.

Thoughts?

Well, this "lockout" feature has been implemented before, in locks like the "MasterLock Nightwatch", which retails for somewhere around $30. However, the Nightwatch is a piece of garbage, and it's something that most would consider low-security. Depending on how the tailpiece and lock connect, one may be able to actuate the tailpiece from outside of the door, given the cylinder has an open keyway.
Even with the lock-out feature, the lock could still be opened from the outside, if access to the bolt lock is available (i.e. through a smashed window). A lock like the captive key Medeco would not be susceptible to this method.
Your team looks like they've done a good job with the hardware part, those screws shouldn't budge if they're installed properly. However, it's always a good idea to be concerned about the whole door jamb/door failing, but that is usually the responsibility of the homeowner.

[Safety0ff]

Let's talk competion:

Master lock NightWatch:
-Much cheaper ($30-$48)
-Lock out concept (not quite as robust as the "ultimate lock.")
-As far as physical abuse goes, the "Ultimate lock" sounds like it would stand up far better against physical abuse.

Abloy Locking Thumbturn:
-Same price ($219.00)
-Real, high security. (Drill, key duplication, bump, pick resistant.)
-I would expect the hardware to be ATLEAST as good as that of the "Ultimate lock." I don't have the exact details thought (where's Jaakko?)

Medeco Commercial Maxum Captive Thumbturn
-Cheaper ($189.00)
-Real, high security.I don't want to go into too many details.
-I would expect the hardware to be ATLEAST as good as that of the "Ultimate lock." (Too tired to look it up.)

There's many other high security options as well, but I think that's enough.

In conclusion, I'd much rather go with the Medeco or Abloy than the "Ultimate lock."

Much of your kick resistance comes from the longer screws provided (which can be had from a hardware store.)

Anyways, I'm out for the night.

[6174]

Just to be clear, the Ultimate Lock is still kick resistant without the "lock-out" mode engaged. It's just not pick or bump proof when the button has not been engaged from the inside of the home.

When looking to break any security system you always look for the weakest link in the chain. If the lock is not pick or bump "proof" (or resistant or whatever term you choose to use) when the lock-out is not engaged then the security is poor. This is particularly true here because to gain picking and bumping resistance your lock requires the owner to be present, inside of where the lock is, and aware of the need to engage the lock-out. This is quite an assumption.

[paule]

Much of your kick resistance comes from the longer screws provided (which can be had from a hardware store.)

There is actually more to it then the longer screws. There is a mechanism inside that forces the screws to dig deeper into the doorjamb as it is being kicked in.

I appreciate all the feedback. I will see if we can incorporate these features into a future version.

[Legion303]

I live in Colorado, which means I have the right to directly defend my home against intruders. What advantage does this $219 lock have over a $160 shotgun?

I might also suggest that as a marketing director, you should have enough pull to send locks out for testing. If your company is serious about getting feedback on these things, send a few to Han Fey.

-steve

[n2oah]

send a few to Han Fey.

Or any other member of lp101.

[Jaakko]

Abloy Locking Thumbturn:
-Same price ($219.00)
-Real, high security. (Drill, key duplication, bump, pick resistant.)
-I would expect the hardware to be ATLEAST as good as that of the "Ultimate lock."

Normal Abloy cylinders are fixed with M5 screws (two of them) and you can't take ahold of the cylinder with a tool. If you would insert a sort of "blank" in the keyway that grabs the cylinder and you pull it, your tool would break first, no matter what material. So it holds quite well

(where's Jaakko?)

Haha, first thought of those "Where's Waldo" pictures

[straightpick]

I looked at the website and video and here is what I think. It is not a high security lock because it has a six pin cylinder. A high security lock lock has a keyblank that requires special equipment to duplicate, is restricted and/or patent protected AND has a secondary locking mechanism in the cylinder. e.g. Medeco, key cuts at angles, pins must be rotated to those angles and a sidebar mechanism that is operated only when those pins are rotated to the correct angle and depth.

Second, you stated it is drill resistant when in the lockout mode. Well, it is either drill resistant or it isn't - lockout mode has no effect on drill resistance. For those wondering about the lockout mode, the button either locks the inner thumbturn so it cannot rotate, or it disconnects the cylinder tailpiece from the cylinder, the same way a hotel function lock works. The key would just turn round and round as their is no motion transfered to the bolt from the cylinder.

From what I could see it appears to be a deadbolt lock with an auxillary bolt on the inside that enters another strike. Picture a surface mounted night latch lock and deadbolt combo. It is no doubt better than a standard deadbolt, but the door and frame must be properly built to take advantage of its strengths. I can't tell you how many times I have installed deadbolts when drilling the hole for the strike hitting air space when I got through the door jamb, the stud being anywhere fron a half inch to over an inch from the jamb!

[mitch.capper]

As many have said using a non-high security cylinder is one of the definate weak points of the system. Also as you mentioned it is only bump-proof in lock out mode which is _bad_ to claim it is bump proof on your website and such as you do as it isn't always bump proof. I think the main problem would be the family who goes away on vacation and then has their home bumped into and wants to know why their bump proof lock was picked.

A quick fix would be adding a cylinder like a Marks or Scorpion CX-5 which can be priced around $30, have the same schlage tail piece, and would provide a level of key control and actually be a bump proof cylinder. Another option would be something like the BiLock which has very strict key control but that is a bit more costly than the Marks Track system.

Both would also certainly make it a lot harder to pick and (atleast with the marks) not change your overall costs or hardware requirements much.

[globallockytoo]

Not to mention bump proof (Bilock)

[NKT]

Seems the link to the diagram has been pulled, I got a 404.

The little video is interesting, but if you want to see how the pros (UK police) handle doors like these, take a look on LSS at the videos of the police using rams and the like to pop doors.

Simply stopping a fat guy from kicking it in isn't a great demo - I see plenty of basic lever locks here that have stopped that. (And I mean deadlocks that sometimes cost £5 and are totally, utterly bumpproof as they are lever locks.) It is only the cheap nightlatches that tend to fail. Anything with a rating on a decent door stops a kicking attack as a minimum threat level. Stopping the "key" is a better example, but again, doesn't tell us that much.

How much bolt overlaps? The UK now demands 20mm (~7/8ths of an inch) protrusion for the British Standard. However, if the lock doesn't lock the door to the frame in some way, I'd not call it secure, these days. Hook bolt, expanding bolt, whatever, but lock them together somehow. I can't tell what yours does.

Give us a new link to the lock diagram, and I can critique it properly.

[lunchb0x]

I have seen lockwood 355 on steel clad doors kicked in and the only thing holding the door to the frame is the lock, also there is nothing on the outside of the door to get hold of to force your way in, and also high security cylinders can be used like bilock and abloy. the 355 by its self sells for around $170AUS and most of the time can be fitted in under 20 minutes.

[globallockytoo]

The 355 probably wouldnt get sold here because the handle turns 360*. Thats against ADA rules (AFAIK)

There already are elcheapo clawbolts like Bird or Yale, but key doesnt turn full revolution from inside to lock or unlock.

I always wondered why Abloy was accepted, because the keys turn (more often) a full revolution to operate locks......Does anyone know why they are acceptable when the ADA requires locks without a turning action of a full revolution?

[lunchb0x]

So do all locks in america have to meet ADA requirements?

[frostbyte]

Ron Daniels invented the Ultimate LOCK for three reasons. To protect your family, to protect your business and to help fire fighters and law enforcement agencies to do their job better.

I'm curious how the lock helps fire fighters to do their job better.