Beginner, having some major problems

[NinjaVanish]

Hey all. New to lockpicking, just got into it recently as a hobby. I've got two Master padlocks I'm practicing on (the ones with the gold body and silver shackle), one small one large. I picked the small one, my first victory, in 40 minutes. After that, I was able to do it within a few minutes with a quick and dirty method (just using a short hook and jiggling around). But I've tried to use a very precise SPP method now, and failing miserably. Here are my problems:

First: I can't tell which pin to pick first. People say start with the back, but what if that's not the pin that binds first? Picking the last pin is pointless if it's the 2nd or 3rd pin that's binding up first and needs to be picked so you can rotate the plug slightly and work on the next pin. So my question is, how do I find the first pin to pick??

Second: I can't tell when I've overset a pin or not. I can identify the pins with my short hook, I usually move to the back of the lock (slide the pick all the way in), then push against the pins and drag slowly. As soon as I hear a click, I have my point of reference. I sometimes start with the first pin and move inward. So I can find the pins, and I can put pressure on them and feel them spring back up which tells me the pin is NOT set. But if the pin is overset or set properly so it's right along the shear line, I have no idea.

Third: I am having trouble with the short hook, which is a pretty standard tool. While reaching all the way in to push down, say, pin 5, the pick is also pushing down on pin 4 and maybe 3, because I can't get the leverage to make sure the hook part is pressing down ONLY on pin 5. The shaft of the pick along with the hook part is pressing down on multiple pins. This is obviously a problem.

I get how picking works. Essentially, SPP is applying slight torque, find the pin that's binding the most, and push it towards the shear line till you feel a slight give, then find (somehow???) the next binding pin, without dropping the first one you set (that's tough), and set that pin, rinse and repeat. But I can't do it in practice. I ordered a nifty cut-away lock on eBay that allows you to repin (without tools) to have 1 through 5 pins, and you can see what's going on, so that might help me out to learn how these things feel. But right now I'm having a really hard time.

Any advice is welcome!

[Raymond]

Hey sport, we all went through this confusion once. Do not get depressed yet. There is plenty of time for that when you get tough locks and a customer is looking over your shoulder talking about what they saw on TV when the secret agent opened the vault with his cell phone antenna.

Really, every lock is somewhat different. There is no prescribed order to find the "binding" pin. Just practice and feel. Try closing your eyes and see in your mind what your pick is doing in the lock. It is too easy to push the front pins up too high while trying to reach the back pins. All the pins might be long so dont expect that they all have to be moved all the way to the top of the keyway. Dont be in too big of a hurry to relax the turning force and start over. You might have just that one more pin to set when you dropped the rest.

There is no way to guarantee that a different style or brand of pick will be more effective. So practice and get used to using what you have available. As long as your pick is very similar to the age proven standards of this industry you have to potential to open most locks.

Try using the turning tool at the top of the keyway sometimes. It allows a lot more room at the bottom so the curved pick can reach the back pins without bothering the front pins. There are so many tricks and techniques that everyone will have another view on this subject. Do not lock yourself into thinking there is only one way to do something. Be flexible in your technique and try new methods. Just keep an open mind and LOOK/LISTEN/FEEL for the for the signs indicating your particular lock's weaknesses. You say that you understand the theory of SPP. That only leaves practice.

And have fun!

[Olson Burry]

Hello, I will try to help. This hobby is all about practice and, for me at least, the sense of achievement in over coming obstacles through understanding. There is no quick road and it will take time but it you have "the bug" you'll enjoy getting there.

So, to your points:

I can't tell which pin to pick first.

A good start is to get a feel for the pins before applying tension. Put the pick in and feel, really feel, every pin and how much resistance the springs offer on them. Try to number them in your head somehow on a scale, find the most resistant and call it a 5 and the least springy a 1. Or something. Just get a feel for them without tension being applied.

When the slightest amount of tension is used, one of these pins will feel different. That's your target.

I can't tell when I've overset a pin or not

If you can find the binding pin and attempt to pick that first, oversetting shouldn't be a problem. If you are applying too much tention it is possible to overset pins but with a light touch you should feel it set and that is that. Over setting can also feel like a complete "stop" and no other pins will resist or set afterwards. If you feel that, release the tension, let it drop and try again without moving it up so far. On to the next pin. Of course security pins will frustrate this but you can deal with that later in the picking process.

I am having trouble with the short hook

Try a half diamond. Remember what the lowest bitting on the key can be. Usually it is level with the final ward on the keyway which means as long as your pick doesnt go above that when going in and out you're good to go.

Practice practice practice.

Be good

OB

[ToolyMcgee]

Masterlock 130 and 140. Maybe 140 and 150. Either way I would type a short breakdown of how these little suckers generally pick, but I already did it yesterday here:
http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?t=40395
Hyperlinking is good for my tired hands. Good luck

-ToolyMcgee

[NinjaVanish]

Thanks for the tips, guys. And yes, the small one is definitely a Master 140. The bigger one actually doesn't say Master on it anywhere. It's not labeled at all so I don't know what it is.

I'll pick up some easier practice material and see how that goes. Plus I have a cutaway lock in the mail where I can see the pin action, and I can repin it to use spools if I want, so I can see how those feel compared to regular pins.

[straightpick]

This method works for me. I'll apply light tension and run a rake in three or four times. Then use a small diamond or hook to see which pins are set. Those pins are the easy ones, make a mental note of which ones they are. Release the tension, reapply it then start single picking on the other pins first. Sorry, there is no magic was of knowing which pin to start with, that's where practice and experience come into play. For example, after using the rake, you find that on a five pin lock pins 3 and 4 are set. You know that they are the easy ones. Now try picking 1-2-5. If you feel a pin drop then change the order - 2-1-5 or 1-5-2, etc. Picking works because of machining discrepencies in the drilling of the plug and shell. The holes are not perfectly in line, but differ right and left from the centerline. Try drawing a line on paper then draw five pins slightly off the center line right and left. The one that is farthest off to the right, if you are turning right, has to be picked first, in order for the plug to move, then the next one farthest off right, etc.

[mtt.tr]

Try reading the MIT guide its pretty good just Google MIT guide .pdf and you should find it no problem.

[NinjaVanish]

Thanks. Gonna run out and buy a cheapo padlock today with standard pins. I did get a Master padlock but it turns out it's a warded lock and you need warded picks for that.

[NinjaVanish]

I bought a Master No. 1 today. Does this thing really have just 3 pins in it or am I miscounting? I picked it in under a minute the first time, just kinda jiggling the short hook around. If I try a precise SPP method though, again, I fail. Partly because this thing is so cheap, the pins feel gritty/sticky and the whole cylinder shifts around in its casing.. cheap! I can barely even identify the pins in this thing.

[NinjaVanish]

This method works for me. I'll apply light tension and run a rake in three or four times. Then use a small diamond or hook to see which pins are set. Those pins are the easy ones, make a mental note of which ones they are. Release the tension, reapply it then start single picking on the other pins first.

Wait a sec... if you apply very light tension and rake the pins, and let's say pins 2 and 4 stick, why release the tension and start with pins 1 and 3? 2 and 4 stuck with only light torque because when you turn the plug, they get stuck first, before pins 1 and 3, so you'd have to push pins 2 and 4 to the shear line first, wouldn't you? Only then could you rotate the plug a little more and pick pins 1 and 3.



See, if you're turning counter clockwise.. pins 2 and 4 will hit that wall first, right? So you wanna pick those first. Of course I could be wrong.. if I am, please correct me. I'm still learning.

[aka.decoy]

Sorry, but this post won't be of much help to you NinjaVanish.

I was browsing through here and saw ToolyMcgee's hyperlink on security pins. I'm not into kissing @$$ but that post really helped me. It was quite clear and I copy-pasted it to file. Kudos to you!

As for your question NinjaVanish, I was actually thinking the same thing. Unless 2 & 4 are false setting. Unfortunately, I am but a lowly padawan learner and cannot answer your question. Either way, I was impressed with your persistence and picture you've drawn to clarify your question.

Good luck.

[Afisch]

I think the question is about binding order? You need to lift the pins in the order that they stick on the plug, as one is pushed too the shear the next will bind etc.