Lock Picks and the Law?

[Wavesonics]

I learned picking from the MIT lock picking guide and started out w\ a lock from Homedepot and 2 paper clips, I got pretty good @ opening 5 pin tumbelers w\ them but it still took considerable ammounts of time and was difficult since the paper clipsa re weak.

So I just ordered and recieved my brand new 20 peice lock pick set and was woundering what if any were the laws around carrying this in public. Or more likely keeping it in my truck.

I know you can't keep things like large knives in your truck (Say my 7" Ka Bar, could be confiskated if found in public, aka my truck) So are there any laws about carrying lock pick sets?

[quickpicks]

laws vary from state to state so my best suggestion would be to find yourself a copy of the criminal code book for your area (a recent copy) . You can always go down to your local police station and ask there If you don't feel like putting a hole in your wallet.

[Wavesonics]

thats bout what I thought, same w\ knife carrying laws. Thanks man.
If any one knows the NJ laws feel free to post em plz. If not I'm gonna contact the police department bout it.

[Romstar]

Man, don't contact the police. Not unless you want to call several different officers.
The police department is NOT, I repeat, not interested in giving you a decent interpretation of the law. Furthermore, they may not even know the laws concerning lockpicks, and simply consider them burgler tools by default.

What the police are interested in is two things. Looking like they are busy, or if they really are busy, reducing their workload. Since this is New Jersy, they are most likely going to tell you they are illegal.

Call a lawyer, call several if you have to until you get one that will talk to you for 10 or 15 minutes without charging you for the time. They will be able to give you a decent interpretation of the laws in your area.
This may not prevent run ins with officers who don't know the law, but you stand a better chance of coming out of it with your property if YOU know the law, and can site the proper section of law.

In any case, failing everything else, do some research at your local law library and you should be able to find something. If you must carry the tools, try to have some loose locks so that you can show that you are picking for fun, and not for criminal purposes.

Good luck,
Romstar

[Wavesonics]

cool thx for the tips man.

[plot]

from this thread: viewtopic.php?t=2850&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

i found this link for new jersey law:
http://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/cgi-bin/om ... Frame_Pg42

and also this about lockpicks in new jersey:

2C:5-5. Burglar's Tools.
a. Any person who manufactures or possesses any engine, machine, tool or implement adapted, designed or commonly used for committing or facilitating any offense in chapter 20 of this Title or offenses involving forcible entry into premises.

(1) Knowing the same to be so adapted or designed or commonly used; and

(2) With either a purpose so to use or employ it, or with a purpose to provide it to some person who he knows has such a purpose to use or employ it, is guilty of an offense.

b. Any person who publishes plans or instructions dealing with the manufacture or use of any burglar tools as defined above, with the intent that such publication be used for committing or facilitating any offense in chapter 20 of this Title or offenses involving forcible entry into premises is guilty of an offense.

The offense under a. or b. of this section is a crime of the fourth degree if the defendant manufactured such instrument or implements or published such plans or instructions; otherwise it is a disorderly persons offense.

Amended 1979,c.178,s.18A; 1992,c.198,s.1.


2C:5-6. Motor vehicle master keys
a. Any person who knowingly possesses a motor vehicle master key or device designed to operate a lock or locks on motor vehicles or to start a motor vehicle without an ignition key is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

b. Any person who offers or advertises for sale, sells or gives to any person other than those excepted in subsection c. a motor vehicle master key or device designed to operate a lock or locks on a motor vehicle or to start a motor vehicle without an ignition key is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree.

c. Subsection a. shall not apply to a law enforcement officer, constable, locksmith or dealer, distributor or manufacturer of motor vehicles or motor vehicle locks, a garage keeper, or a person engaged in the business of lending on the security of motor vehicles, or in the business of acquiring by purchase evidence of debt secured by interests in motor vehicles, and his employees and agents.

L.1978, c. 95, s. 2C:5-6, eff. Sept. 1, 1979.

So um... looks like they have a pretty strict law and could easily nail you on possession of lockpicks, so i would just keep them at home..

[spunoff]

in australia they say you are "going equipped to steal" , unless you have a valid legal reason to be carrying, eg, locksmith on call.

[mcm757207]

I just ran down to the library and read through my state's statutes for free...

[Retrovertigo]

Just get yourself bonded. It's only like $30 bucks for 2 years. When your a bonded locksmith you get a picture ID. No problem.

[Rath]

where would we go to get ourselvs bonded?

[hzatorsk]

Bonding is an insurance policy. If you are a member of a trade organization that performs services for customers, you can get specifics about the bonding agencies from them. Bonding generally is not available for free-lanced or self-employed part-time individuals. You must be able to show you have an active licensed business presence. (Business license, registration with state as a locksmith or security service, perhaps a storefront, etc.)

[Romstar]

My insurance company will bond anyone. Licensed or not. After all, it's your money you are spending.
As you said, it is in essence just a different type of insurance.

Romstar

[S3rratedSp00L]

For those of you in the U.S, and specifically California Check out:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

Penal Code, Vehicle Code, and Business and Professions Code seem to be the most relevant. You really need to read multiple codes since they tend to overlap a little bit....

Ask a lawyer rather than law enforcement. You will just make police suspicious as some of them believe that they can be hobby pickers and you cannot. As stated in previous posts, most police simply don't know or care much about laws that are seldom enforced. Unless you make them suspicious, piss them off, or they are bored. Even though it may not be illegal, you may end up being hassled and having to appear in court. Possibly appearing multiple times and stretching over several months or years. You may also have to pay various court fees for paperwork, etc..
Just something to think about.

For more info, do a search. I think there are a few threads about carrying picks in public. The general consensus is that is is not a good idea, unless it is part of your job, although I am sure plenty of us have forgottoen to empty our pockets before leaving the house a few times... so be careful!

I wish I knew about bonding in california. Anybody know what is required to be bonded in california??? Just curious.

[skold]

in aus you have to have an extremely valid reason for possesion of picks and if your picking a lock you either have to have the key to it or have permission to pick it

[T-Real]

I have been unable to find anything in Oregon law that refers to lock picks or the act of picking. The law regarding burglary tools only seems to relate to cutting tools and explosive agents (with intent of course).

Here's all it says:

164.235 Possession of a burglary tool or theft device. (1) A person commits the crime of possession of a burglary tool or theft device if the person possesses a burglary tool or theft device and the person:

(a) Intends to use the tool or device to commit or facilitate a forcible entry into premises or a theft by a physical taking; or

(b) Knows that another person intends to use the tool or device to commit or facilitate a forcible entry into premises or a theft by a physical taking.

(2) For purposes of this section, “burglary tool or theft device” means an acetylene torch, electric arc, burning bar, thermal lance, oxygen lance or other similar device capable of burning through steel, concrete or other solid material, or nitroglycerine, dynamite, gunpowder or any other explosive, tool, instrument or other article adapted or designed for committing or facilitating a forcible entry into premises or theft by a physical taking.

(3) Possession of a burglary tool or theft device is a Class A misdemeanor. [1971 c.743 §138; 1999 c.1040 §13; 2003 c.577 §9]