Questions and Comments on UK Lockie Business

[Blobbo]

Thanks folks.

I must admit a lot of key cutting only places over in London usually do shoe repairs and dry cleaning as well, spot of diversity . I am currently looking around for a local lockie shop that also specialises in security equipment as that would give me some all round experience. Also that is the sort of business I would like to run as I would like to remain 50% shop based and 50% installation contracts.

Blob

[Engineer]

I think the only thing I can add is too never get over-confident. Give me a quality lock and I can probably pick it, but I'm loosing count of the number of times really cheap and nasty Chinese-made locks just refuse to open.

Makes you look such a pillock, but which is worse - Spending half a day on a lock they bought from the £1 shop, or pulling out the biggest pair of bolt cutters/biggest angle grinder they've ever seen? OK, I know it's a bit unprofessional to open a lock that way, but time is money.

In my own defence, part of it is theatrical. Open a lock with a pick and they wonder if it is worth paying you for doing something so "little". Pull out some enormous piece of equipment, and even if you are opening a lock unprofessionally, at least they feel they are getting their money's worth out of me!

[79commando]

I agree about quality locks being easier to pick the majority of the time than the cheap chinese locks due to tolerances but if it's taking you half a day to open you are doing something seriously wrong.
I admit to have opened padlocks a couple of times with bolt croppers when they have been outdoors for a few years and never opened but I've never been complemented on my Bolt Cropper skills or received return business by doing it.
Lockpicking skills on the other hand accounts for about 30% of my referals regardless if I've opened the lock in under 10 seconds or not. It also accounts for 100% of my warrant work that I receive which is good for about £37000 per year. Work that I've got because the previous handy man caused too much damage.
Despite concentrating on my NDE skills I do know Locksmiths who can't pick locks who make good money. They tend to concentrate on door entry systems, lock changes and security shutters though and you can bet they don't secure them with sticky tape which is like drilling a pickable lock.

[Engineer]

Perhaps my sense of humour missed the mark?

I didn't mean literally I spent half a day picking Chinese locks. I meant that when someone has an incredibly cheap lock, they are not going to be impressed by me picking the lock, but having to charge them for 10-30 minutes work. I always ask them if they want the lock back undamaged, or a slightly smaller bill for speed? Their choice.

While I too have never been complimented on my bolt cropper skills, I don't win my repeat business by costing people money unneccessarily. Warrenty work is like compairing chalk with cheese - They are completely different things that cannot be compaired. A £1 lock on a bike is likely to be wanted off at the cheapest possible price. While warrenty work needs to be done with no damage. There you can charge more as you take more time. It's a completely different type of customer.

[79commando]

With my fees I give a fixed price for opening regardless how long it takes which should equate to the cost of bolt cropping or trashing a lock in under ten seconds. I just find through my experience customers tend to store your number in their phone if you pick as opposed to trash. They also talk to their mates about the guy who opened their lock without damage.
I've picked up a few major contracts by picking open cheap locks belonging to letting agents. I also give out about 5 jobs per week to fellow locksmiths that I know can pick and I'm a member of an Institute that has members who pass thousands of pounds of work to other pickers.
I also receive regular calls from locksmiths in my area looking for work and I always ask if they can pick locks. I can hand on heart say I have never had a call from a locksmith that can pick locks looking for work as they are always busy. I have even called over 40 locksmith companies in a 40 mile radius of me to get someone to cover warrant work and not one would do it as they couldn't pick locks. Pretty stupid when you think that the British Gas contract alone is worth over 1.5 million pounds per year.
There is a time and a place for damage but picking is the best business model you will get.

[79commando]

On the speed side of life with practice most pin cylinders including padlocks pick in under one minute and British Standard Mortice locks between one and 5 minutes. Drilling actually takes me longer especially when you take repairs into consideration. A £5 padlock with a hardened shackle won't even succomb to Bolt Croppers and they can be a pain to grind or drill if access is restricted.

[Engineer]

79commando, you do seem to be trying to make a wrong point?

I wont get into a flame war with you.

Maybe you have different customers than I? I've never yet had a member of the public come back just because I've picked their lock well. Mine all come back because I'm reliable, fair and good at my job. You want it picked, I will do it, you want it cropped off though - Fine. I let my customers decide what they want. My experiences with my customers are not the same as yours then.

You do seem to run a different business plan to me. Mine is more like a garage mechanic's. I charge parts and time, not flat rates. I am not critising you, please don't criticise me then.

Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else? I've never drilled a lock in my life. I've not needed to. I pick at a high level, which is something else that makes me think you might be confusing me with someone else.

My post was about the Chinese padlocks that I have come across here, where the problem is not poor tolerances, but 5 security pins in a padlock from a pound shop. Consdiering the quantity of metal in the lock, transportation costs etc. It is remarkable that they can include so many security pins at that price.

[79commando]

Sorry, not meening to flame you. Like you say each customer is different. I'm just trying to put my point across for the New starts out there.

[Engineer]

Hi again 79commando,

No problem, your point it well made. Drilling does look unprofessional, as does cropping padlocks. I know, I don't like doing it, but if my client wants the cheapest job possible, because his kid's lost the key to a cheapie lock, I generally crop it off and leave with a feeling of defeat.

The padlocks I had in mind - I've got a couple I've managed to buy from Pound shops - Don't pick very well. Some are so small, that no commercial picks will even fit in then as they are 50mm wide, but only about 6mm thick - The entire cylinder is only about 5mm. Others defy description. One looks like it is laminated, but that is actually "decoration" on the side, it really has a solid body. The problem with this though is it looks like a cylinder, but is a warded lock really. Again, this one has such a big key, that no commerical picks will come close to opening it. It also has a brute of a spring. If I come across one on a job, I try some bicycle spokes I keep in one of my kit bags, to see if I can improvise a pick for it on site.

I had thought at one stage that I might keep on top of them if I kept searching the cheap shops. Most stay the same thin brass ones, but the "others" seem to change with every batch that gets imported. I usually find they are unique and suprisingly inventive.

Emotions are notiously difficult to interpret from texts, so no problems!

[don1]

I have to agree about the licencing it had to be the biggest surprise i found upon entering the industry. Even now when people ask about how did i get my licence i tell them the truth and they are shocked. Everybody assumes you have to be licenced to do this trade.

Another thing to look out for when starting out you are bound to come across a lot of people who would love to see you fail, ive had my share. Dont let them get to you, sure they will plant the seeds of doubt into your mind but dont let those seeds grow. Ive been put down a few times due to my lack of experience etc but i have to shrug it off and get on with it, in fact i find it drives me to succeed even more.
Get used to people asking "are you busy ?" i always get that one a lot.

Thanks man! I've only been interested in becoming a locksmith in the last few months but I'm completely fascinated and I'm sure I want to take it on as a career. Obviously it will be hard, and as you say it can be easy to be put off by a lot of negativity.... so its nice to hear some positivity!!
I live in london so there is a lot of competition ... a lot of locks too i guess!?

[lockey1963]

Its not all negativity , the problem is the vast majority attending courses and having a go havnt a chance , many are no more than hapless dreamers who believe after their 2 days training they will earn more than a doctor.

The committed , dedicated few who invest wisely , research properly , learn how to run a business and perfect their marketing alongside their skills will eventually prosper , especially if being realistic , form and follow a workable business plan over a realistic timeframe.
you will always as with any business get out of it what you put in, no magic no secrets , just commitment , proper planning and knowing how to run a business.

remember 20 more will be setting up with you, what makes you different why should the customer choose you , how will they notice you , why will they ring you ?

you can be the best lockie in the world and fail as no business accumen or marketing skill , you can be an average locksmith but good at marketing and do very well, you may be the lucky one who is a natural at both.

its not all negative , its just positives are hard to see sometimes through the chaff.

[toomush2drink]

I have to agree about the licencing it had to be the biggest surprise i found upon entering the industry. Even now when people ask about how did i get my licence i tell them the truth and they are shocked. Everybody assumes you have to be licenced to do this trade.

Another thing to look out for when starting out you are bound to come across a lot of people who would love to see you fail, ive had my share. Dont let them get to you, sure they will plant the seeds of doubt into your mind but dont let those seeds grow. Ive been put down a few times due to my lack of experience etc but i have to shrug it off and get on with it, in fact i find it drives me to succeed even more.
Get used to people asking "are you busy ?" i always get that one a lot.

Thanks man! I've only been interested in becoming a locksmith in the last few months but I'm completely fascinated and I'm sure I want to take it on as a career. Obviously it will be hard, and as you say it can be easy to be put off by a lot of negativity.... so its nice to hear some positivity!!
I live in london so there is a lot of competition ... a lot of locks too i guess!?

That was posted in 2004 when there were only 5 training schools where as now there are 125 or more.Totally different opnion now than when i posted that.Now the market is saturated and if you dont have specialist skills your going to find it hard going.Im in london and thats how it is even for those who are established.

[Rickthepick]

cheap tri-circle padlocks FTW... haha

Im wary of anyone that claims they can open any mortise lock in under 5 minutes though... maybe the under £50 range, but anything more expensive and your needing decoding/key building kits

Iv seen a few 'top lockies' put on the spot with something only to fail miserably and walk away tail between the legs.
Its not possible to pick all locks and iv never met anyone that has proved otherwise

[toomush2drink]

cheap tri-circle padlocks FTW... haha

Im wary of anyone that claims they can open any mortise lock in under 5 minutes though... maybe the under £50 range, but anything more expensive and your needing decoding/key building kits

Iv seen a few 'top lockies' put on the spot with something only to fail miserably and walk away tail between the legs.
Its not possible to pick all locks and iv never met anyone that has proved otherwise

Just not met the right people yet. Plenty on here who can do a fair few locks and ive seen plenty of others who can do most mortice locks in no time. One very special guy i know has picked or opened (impressioning,decoders etc) everything we put in front of him. Makes multi locks look easy as a yale.Another certain old member on here has done a 110 with wires in under 5 minutes twice on the door.

[Rickthepick]

Dont get me wrong id love to see someone that could, and then find out how
110 with wires id be very impressed, theres no feel in that lock