Can you sell Bump Proof Locks?

[arbus]

Hi,
Just wondering with ppl around the world if Lock bumping and picking are a big concern? If you are a locksmith do you have ppl asking specifically for bump proof locks?

I'm in Australia and ppl here generally arent scared or worried if their locks can be picked or bumped. Is this the same around the world?

Reason for asking is to see if there is a market around the world for Bump Proof/Highly Pick resistant Keying kits?

Ian

[globallockytoo]

I'm in St Louis and am selling an increased number of Bilock cylinders, with many inquiries coming as a result of the bumping publicity.

Bilock is the only 100% guaranteed bump proof pin tumbler lock on the market (proven), that is true value for money.

But it's not just the bump proof products that are seeing increased sales for me. It is also door frame strengtheners, wrap around kits, blockers and also biometric and EAC.

People are also relatively concerned about the ease that people are learning to pick locks and access lock picking tools.

St Louis has one of the highest crime rates in the USA - maybe this is fueling the demand by people. But realistically, it most unlikely that surreptitious entry will occur through a lock being picked. The fact that bumping exists and recently became very publicised, augers well for the "true" locksmith industry to enjoy a competitive edge. (Finally!)

[Dean W]

Not sure about bump proof, more bump resistant which means it may take a bit longer and deterr the would be assailant. Things like pickbuster and the new cylinders aren't really bump proof. They do market new cylinders in the UK ref this, but like you most people are not bothered at the moment.

[TheSnakey]

aussies need to be more aware of the dangers of poor door security

[arbus]

I wish aussies were more aware of the dangers of poor door security too!

The 'cheap' way we're stopping bumping (and pick guns) in inline cylinders is by replacing 1 or more pins in the lock with 'special' pins. They are just a pin that dosent sit right on the bottom broaching as they normally do. So if you have a bump key it dosent make contact with the pin. Also if it is a low pin then using a pick gun dosent work either, because by the time you have pushed the needle up to the small pin, you have pushed the larger pins past the shear line.

It is just really easy,cheap and effective. I know that if you are skilled at reading locks you can work out which pins are not sitting down correctly and try to cut a special bump key. (as long as it is a short pin and not a long one in disguise...). But it effectively stops a key cut as all 9's from bumping a lock open.

That's the reason i was asking just to see if there is a market for a keying kit with these pins.

Ian

[lunchb0x]

aussies need to be more aware of the dangers of poor door security

I think we are just as aware of security than anyone else, but bumping just isn't a problem in Australia, and how can you even show how it is a problem anywhere else in the world, its not like is leaves any traces so you know that someone bumped your lock, in Australia they just break the lock off so whats the point on a bump proof lock then.

[yoyoboy]

Masterlock bump stop...

I wish aussies were more aware of the dangers of poor door security too!

The 'cheap' way we're stopping bumping (and pick guns) in inline cylinders is by replacing 1 or more pins in the lock with 'special' pins. They are just a pin that dosent sit right on the bottom broaching as they normally do. So if you have a bump key it dosent make contact with the pin. Also if it is a low pin then using a pick gun dosent work either, because by the time you have pushed the needle up to the small pin, you have pushed the larger pins past the shear line.

It is just really easy,cheap and effective. I know that if you are skilled at reading locks you can work out which pins are not sitting down correctly and try to cut a special bump key. (as long as it is a short pin and not a long one in disguise...). But it effectively stops a key cut as all 9's from bumping a lock open.

That's the reason i was asking just to see if there is a market for a keying kit with these pins.

Ian

[lunchb0x]

That's the reason i was asking just to see if there is a market for a keying kit with these pins.

Ian

There is a bit more to it than just sticking in these types of pins considering the diameter holes in the plug have to be smaller so the top pins don't come all the way through, so you would have to drill out one of the bibles in the top of the lock to make the pins fit.



And Master lock isn't that popular in Australia so I don't see these locks being used any time soon.

[arbus]

Masterlock bump stop...

This is different to master bump stop. And master bump stop dosent work. Try it! you can still bump it.

There is a bit more to it than just sticking in these types of pins considering the diameter holes in the plug have to be smaller so the top pins don't come all the way through, so you would have to drill out one of the bibles in the top of the lock to make the pins fit.

with these pins you dont have to change any hole diameters or change the lock in any special way. At the moment we are drilling out the bible in the top to install in some locks, but it is not necessary in all locks and it can be overcome. (it is just easier to dril out the bible) I'm into easy

Why we use these pins is because it will fit into Pin tumbler lock for a couple of bucks. It is alot cheaper then replacing with a high security cylinder.

[datagram]

The technique mentioned earlier is shadow drilling; drilling a random chamber higher than the others. It has to be random; doing it to the back chamber only will still allow your locks to be bumped; just have ascending bump keys for that back pin.

Bump Stop uses top gapping, which makes the top pins tapered so that they do not fall all the way into the chamber to rest on top of the bottom pin. In this way the energy transfer is limited between top and bottom pin.

There are many bump-proof locks, the Bilock is not the only one. Many dimple-hybrids share this title. (Kaba Penta, for example) However, just because it is bump proof does not mean it is a secure lock. For example, all wafer locks are bump proof, but 99% of them are extremely cheap and picked in 5 seconds. Security is a combination of things! The lock, the door, and everything in between and around!

dg

[lunchb0x]

Arbus, do you havea picture of these pins??

[globallockytoo]

arbus reminds me of a kiwi who designed a bump proofing application. Craig (something) he's got 11 kids. dont know much about it...but have no reason to doubt him.

[arbus]

I havent 11 kids! Not yet anyway. No not a kiwi. I am on the other side of the Tasman.

I am out of stock of the pins at the moment. Waiting for more. I've been field testing them with good success (none of my customers have been broken into yet ). The field test is more for durability. Just sent out 80 padlocks with these pins.

I will post a photo as soon as they come in...

But they are quite simple. We just connect the spring to the top of the chamber. The other end of the spring to the Top Pin and the Top Pin to the bottom pin. this way the bump key cant touch the bottom pin at all.

Ian

[arbus]

Here is a video on installing a set of pins into a lock cylinder.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDIwCwZS-_Y

[Banan_mormor]

I am not locksmith but i talked to a lot of locksmith here in Sweden and 90% don't know what a bump key is
And i don´t think that a lot of customers in Sweden knows about it.
I have never heard anything about bumping on the Swedish news.
Our biggest selling lock in Sweden is ASSA scd and Assa twin and they are nearly impossible to bump that maybe the reason that no one talks about it here.